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If "Tube Sound" Is a Myth, Why Tubes?

SIY

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no comment. :rolleyes:

View attachment 182129

A coupla 866jr regulators in the P/S for an SE 211 stereo power amp belonging to one of the northern New England vacuum tube luminaries. :)

I worry more about the UV from those rascals than a wee bit o' mercury.
Kids these days...
Heck, I used to have a mercury barometer -- complete with a few several pounds of mercury.
I did get rid of it, in an environmentally responsible manner. Even I have my limits.
The mercury is a minor worry compared to the massive radiated HF hash. Ditto the heat-up coddling process needed to keep them from premature death.
 

mhardy6647

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The mercury is a minor worry compared to the massive radiated HF hash. Ditto the heat-up coddling process needed to keep them from premature death.
I'll give you that (those). :)
 

Sal1950

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The mercury is a minor worry compared .
I remember as a kid in school science class, playing with balls of mercury loose in our hands as we learned about liquid metal, it was so much fun to play with. Just don't swallow it the teacher said, that might not be too good for you.
Ain't killed me, yet. LOL
 

Thermionics

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Question is, how much difference in the amp do you actually see between different (pin compatible) 5V rectifiers? 5U4 vs 5Y3 vs 5R4 have maybe a 20V spread in their drops at full draw. 5AR4 is a lot lower drop, may as well use solid state. :D
Somewhere I have a spreadsheet of all the various and sundry 5 & 6V rectifiers and their respective voltage drops / first capacitor ratings...

[EDIT: never mind - Mark already posted the relevant data]
 

SIY

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Somewhere I have a spreadsheet of all the various and sundry 5 & 6V rectifiers and their respective voltage drops / first capacitor ratings...

[EDIT: never mind - Mark already posted the relevant data]
The other thing to note is differences in heater current draw.
 

mhardy6647

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The other thing to note is differences in heater current draw.
Yup -- that seems to be a parameter that eludes some tube-rollers (not just rectifier rollers) :(
Imagine hittin' the filament current draw wall in that little PT installed in a Carver Crimson 275.

:( :cool::facepalm:
 
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DonH56

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The other thing to note is differences in heater current draw.
Yup -- that seems to be a parameter that eludes some tube-rollers (not just rectifier rollers) :(
Imagine hittin' the filament current draw wall in that little PT installed in a Carver Crimson 275.

:( :cool::facepalm:
Agreed! Many, many years ago a friend (OK, it was me :facepalm:) replaced a pair of 5AU4's in an old amp with a pair of nice high-power 5AT4's. I blew several filament fuses initially and whilst trying to figure out what I did to bugger up the filament supply before looking again at the specs. Duh!
 

mhardy6647

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Agreed! Many, many years ago a friend (OK, it was me :facepalm:) replaced a pair of 5AU4's in an old amp with a pair of nice high-power 5AT4's. I blew several filament fuses initially and whilst trying to figure out what I did to bugger up the filament supply before looking again at the specs. Duh!
Anything that doesn't kill one makes one stronger.
:cool:
 

DonH56

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Anything that doesn't kill one makes one stronger.
:cool:
In hindsight I was lucky the filament was fused -- most were not, and transformers stink when they overheat! Not to mention get very toxic...
 

SIY

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In hindsight I was lucky the filament was fused -- most were not, and transformers stink when they overheat! Not to mention get very toxic...
Or get shorts to the core and bells...
 

MattHooper

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Here's a recent...interesting?...fun?...goofy?...ridiculous?.....(insert your opinion) "Tube vs Solid state" comparison on a youtube video.

I'm linking to this not, of course, as any rigorous demonstration of anything, which it clearly is not, but for a bit of fun related to the topic of the thread.

Jay's Audio Lab put out a few videos of his system playing music powered by VAC tube amps vs Gryphon solid state amps, keeping the identify hidden and using a voting system on which sound the youtube audience preferred.

There is clearly a sense in which audio demos on youtube are ludicrous which hardly needs to be spelled out ("Man, those Revel Salon speakers don't sound any better than the iphone I'm using to watch that video! What a rip off!").

On the other hand there is a more serious question about whether at least relative differences in sound can be heard if it's a well recorded demo, played back on good enough speakers (or even not-so-great speakers). I think the obvious answer is "yes." Of course in principle relative differences can be discerned. After all you are hearing relative audible differences between people's voices etc on any youtube video. Not to mention there are all sorts of microphone comparison tests on youtube where the differences are easily discerned.

If the characteristics of a piece of audio gear were audibly distinct enough - e.g. two different speakers - then it's entirely plausible, even expected, there would be some audible difference picked up in a decent youtube video. There are some decent speaker vs speaker comparisons where the differences seem clearly audible. A further question would be: WHEN the differences are audible...are they actually capturing anything informative about the sound character differences between A and B? That's more dicey, but having checked out tons of these videos - which include some speakers I know - I'm left with the hunch that says "yes it's possible to a degree."

Anyway, all that said, and while this channel will certainly not be to the taste of many, here's a link to the first "blind test" video:


You can go from that to the next two "blind test" videos then to the "revelation of the winner" video, if you care to.

Interesting to me (though again, not good evidence) is that, once the identities were revealed I found I chose correctly for each trial, that is decided which was solid state over tubes. I felt I was hearing a relative difference in the presentations, that same precision, especially of leading edges in the guitar, in one version over another, the same as I hear when I compare solid state amps or preamps in my system to my tubes. And that was indeed the solid state amp presentation each time. Further, interesting is that the majority of viewers chose the same amp as "sounding best" once the winner was revealed.

Spoiler reveal:

The Solid State amps were preferred!

Once again...not rigorous evidence for anything (e.g. could be explained by slight volume differences in the recordings), but fun relevant to the thread subject for those who want it.
 

Sal1950

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In hindsight I was lucky the filament was fused -- most were not, and transformers stink when they overheat! Not to mention get very toxic...

And leak a gooey mess on your rack.
 

Sal1950

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Mnyb

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Mercury vapor? Just say no. :D
Yes to that , they where used a bit into the late sixties as DC drives . Yes actually driving MW sized DC motors .
And in the early 2000 we removed such a monstrously from a customers site and replaced it with digital thyristor drive.
We found a toolkit with ampules of pure liquid mercury? Possibly these large rectifiers could be topped up with mercury and the vacuum restored ? But the enclosure was metal not glass so we could not bask in the radiant uv glow , so no pure cancer rays for us :)
 

dfuller

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In hindsight I was lucky the filament was fused -- most were not, and transformers stink when they overheat! Not to mention get very toxic...
I semi-recently had a Fender 6G15 reverb unit come in for repair - the driver tube for the reverb shorted the plate or screen to cathode and nuked not only the hum balance resistors, but also the entire high voltage winding (though that was because of a particularly bizarre choice of power transformer, using half of the center tapped HT secondary hooked up to an overkill current handling (25 amps, I think) full wave bridge rectifier...).
 

Stonehead1

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Here's a recent...interesting?...fun?...goofy?...ridiculous?.....(insert your opinion) "Tube vs Solid state" comparison on a youtube video.

I'm linking to this not, of course, as any rigorous demonstration of anything, which it clearly is not, but for a bit of fun related to the topic of the thread.

Jay's Audio Lab put out a few videos of his system playing music powered by VAC tube amps vs Gryphon solid state amps, keeping the identify hidden and using a voting system on which sound the youtube audience preferred.

There is clearly a sense in which audio demos on youtube are ludicrous which hardly needs to be spelled out ("Man, those Revel Salon speakers don't sound any better than the iphone I'm using to watch that video! What a rip off!").

On the other hand there is a more serious question about whether at least relative differences in sound can be heard if it's a well recorded demo, played back on good enough speakers (or even not-so-great speakers). I think the obvious answer is "yes." Of course in principle relative differences can be discerned. After all you are hearing relative audible differences between people's voices etc on any youtube video. Not to mention there are all sorts of microphone comparison tests on youtube where the differences are easily discerned.

If the characteristics of a piece of audio gear were audibly distinct enough - e.g. two different speakers - then it's entirely plausible, even expected, there would be some audible difference picked up in a decent youtube video. There are some decent speaker vs speaker comparisons where the differences seem clearly audible. A further question would be: WHEN the differences are audible...are they actually capturing anything informative about the sound character differences between A and B? That's more dicey, but having checked out tons of these videos - which include some speakers I know - I'm left with the hunch that says "yes it's possible to a degree."

Anyway, all that said, and while this channel will certainly not be to the taste of many, here's a link to the first "blind test" video:


You can go from that to the next two "blind test" videos then to the "revelation of the winner" video, if you care to.

Interesting to me (though again, not good evidence) is that, once the identities were revealed I found I chose correctly for each trial, that is decided which was solid state over tubes. I felt I was hearing a relative difference in the presentations, that same precision, especially of leading edges in the guitar, in one version over another, the same as I hear when I compare solid state amps or preamps in my system to my tubes. And that was indeed the solid state amp presentation each time. Further, interesting is that the majority of viewers chose the same amp as "sounding best" once the winner was revealed.

Spoiler reveal:

The Solid State amps were preferred!

Once again...not rigorous evidence for anything (e.g. could be explained by slight volume differences in the recordings), but fun relevant to the thread subject for those who want it.
Thank you for introducing this video!
I chose 1, 1 and 2 in order, and I found out what amplifier suits me.

I need to buy a solid state amp.

Wouldn't it be okay to have a hybride tube amplifier for ornamental purposes?
 
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