I have a clean sound, so what next?

[IndieSynth]

Hi all, and thanks for the advice I've been getting as a non member browsing these forums.

Based on measurements from this site I've just replaced an old Denon mini system (DM-39) with a Wiim Pro into SMSL SU-1 dac into Fosi Audio V3 into my old Dali Zensor 1 speakers. The TV goes into the Wiim. This is my main system so needs to do music and TV. I'm currently using Amazon and Spotify for streaming.

Since installing a few days ago the sound is definitely different, perhaps more detailed, but I wouldn't say better. I know the Dali speakers can be a bit trebbly and I'm noticing that more now. The sound is crisp and clear but not always hugely enjoyable.

Perhaps I'm just used to a level of distortion and need time to adjust? I know this is very subjective but ideally I would like slightly warmer and fuller. So am I really saying slightly rolled off treble and more bass?

If I do decide I need to tweak the sound where would I be best starting?

New speakers? I'm open to this as I can use the Dali's as a second system elsewhere. Any views on the Q Acoustic 3030i to fill out the bass and tame the treble a bit?

Would I be better off getting an eq? If so what would be a good budget option?

Would switching op amps in the V3 have any benefit?

Would a little tube preamp just be silly?

Thanks in advance for any advice.

 

[staticV3]

If I do decide I need to tweak the sound where would I be best starting?

IMO, the best way would be to buy a UMIK-1, then measure the in-room response using Room EQ Wizard and the Moving Microphone Method, then EQ your system using the 4-band Parametric Equalizer that is currently being added to the WiiM Pro via firmware update.

 

[JeremyFife]

What he said

 

[JeremyFife]

... because ... without measurements you really can't tell if any changes you make are having an effect or are just your imagination - you've got nothing real to compare with.
You might find that some re-positioning of your speakers, or some rudimentary room treatments (rugs, moving furniture) help too. But measure, then EQ makes a huge amount of sense

 

[ZolaIII]

QA Q3030i aren't bad but they aren't really all that good either (little bit hard to handle because large back port's...). They won't really go all that low either. I use them with plugged port's and crossed at 100 Hz. Besides you would need stronger amplifier with them. If you want proper bass you will need a subwoofer. If listening should be in near to mid field (1-2 m away) you should check Kali LP 6 V2's. For the start you could go with a sub that has fixed 80 Hz high pass like SVS SB-1000 if you still can find it for a good price (as it's recently disconnect). You will definitely need a measurement microphone!

 

[raindance]

Mission LX-2 or LX-3 speakers, fairly close to the wall will give you a warmer tone, which sounds like what you are after. But measurements and EQ can also help, just depends how far down the rabbit hole you want to get.

 

[moonlight rainbow dream]

I think you may have been mislead by ASR and its SINAD fetish... speakers, setup (speaker and listening position placement), and room acoustics are magnitudes more important for perceived sound quality than electronics.

I think you would get the biggest improvement for money spent wrt "warmer, fuller" sound by adding a pair of subwoofers plus DSP (anything that has active crossover capability and some PEQ; could be an AVR, could be something like a minidsp) and a measurement microphone to integrate them. To start with, you could grab a single sub and use the plate amp features to integrate as Zolalll mentioned, but a processor/DSP has the added benefit of being able to shape the Dali's response a bit to tame the highs. You would need a microphone to confirm that's really the problem - e.g. the speaker is fine and it might be the room and too many hard, reflective surfaces that is causing HF ringing/slow decay that's the issue.

 

[ozzy9832001]

I think Static has the best advise. A UMIK-1 is about $100 and of course you'd need a computer to look it up to, but it will give you the best data to dive into. You also may find that a few EQ adjustments will fix the issues you are having, but having that mic is critical for getting the best possible sound.

Properly placed speakers and a few room treatments can make all the difference, and can be significantly cheaper than a new set of speakers.

 

[restorer-john]

Get new speakers for sure. The little Dalis are cute but you can do a whole lot better in small bookshelf speakers.

 

[ErVikingo]

IMHO except if your system was morbidly flawed with noise/etc you get the best returns on placement/room. I have not listened to the Dalis and whilst you might get substantial gains with good acoustics, the speakers limits wont change.

 

[ZolaIII]

@moonlight rainbow dream you can get all your ever need DSP processing if you don't mind using a PC (preferably desktop Windows based with deacent sound card) in the chain for free (EQ APO) or not that much money (JRiver). You do need deacent measurement microphone and REW. Lows of physics of course apply and you can't ask from small speakers to do what they can't and even good medium to big speakers should be limited to what they can do good (both regarding frequency range and desired SPL). I just try to give proposal's as much budget oriented I can that will pass reference white noise calibration point at given distance.
Room is what you have and you should stick to optimal placement towards how it is (pulling them out in a big one or placing them very close to the back wall in the small one to minimise impact of the problem you can't resolve in such). Take care of flour and sealing refractions best you can and that as little as possible stands in between you and speakers. Only then you take care of usual room mode peeks with DSP and afterwards DSP EQ received FR.

 

[ZolaIII]

Get new speakers for sure. The little Dalis are cute but you can do a whole lot better in small bookshelf speakers.

Nor will the 22~23W at 8 Ohms amp.

 

[Ringer]

I started my hifi journey early this year, it started with an old amp someone gave me plus some leftover speakers from a previous surround system I had. I have basically upgraded everything in pursuit of a sound that I am satisfied with. Each step of the way I thought about giving up and returning the new components before the return window closed, but I stuck with it and have finally achieved a sound that can put me in a trance like state of wonder, hearing depth, soundstage, and details without fatigue. Do your research and consider a realistic budget, a dedicated room is really needed as well, then spend time alone in that room listening deeply. Don't get discouraged if some of the music sounds good and some sounds bad, keep playing different stuff and be realistic about your expectations. You aren't going to get nirvana on the first try, but eventually you will find that during any particular listening session you might get blown away. I think the source (which song) and listening without outside distractions are half of the audiophile hobby, you have to allow for undistracted quality time to get deep into the music.

 

[Prana Ferox]

I think you should enjoy more music

 

[Astoneroad]

I think the source (which song) and listening without outside distractions are half of the audiophile hobby, you have to allow for undistracted quality time to get deep into the music.

Deep diving into the music is like being a recreational heroin user... it's a fine line between having fun and having a problem ... it's easy to cross the line before you realize that you need help. "Hi... my name is __________ and I'm an audio addict..."

 

[IndieSynth]

Thanks for the responses. I think my takeaway is going to be to just enjoy music for a while and maybe go speaker shopping when I next want to treat myself. I see the value in room treatment and taking measurements but my options are so limited by the room shape, size and family practicalities that I doubt I could make useful changes anyway.

I think I might be someone who just dips their toe into this audiophile pool rather than diving right in.

 

[JSmith]

ASR and its SINAD fetish.

I think you could have left this part out of what was otherwise a decent post.


JSmith

 

[Berwhale]

You could just replace the Fosi Audio V3 with a Fosi Audio BT20A which has tone controls (or maybe the BT30D if you fancy adding a sub).

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Would switching op amps in the V3 have any benefit?
Would a little tube preamp just be silly?

No-one commented on this. Fiddling with the Op-Amps is unlikely to be beneficial and could potentially make matters worse.
Tube pre-amps can be made to work well with low distortion (but they are likely to be more expensive than solid state). However, some increase distortion and some people prefer this increased distortion - but it's an added artefact that the music producers were not expecting you would add.

If you went to a live recording of a band in a studio you would be amazed at how loud it is and how "bright" (in HiFi terms) it is.

 

[Zek]

The sound is crisp and clear but not always hugely enjoyable.

Would switching op amps in the V3 have any benefit?

You can try with a small investment.

Would a little tube preamp just be silly?

If you want to "color" the sound, try it, it's not expensive.