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I Dream of Maggies

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Hello!
I just recently found this forum and I want to start by saying what a relief it is to find somewhere that doesn’t believe in ‘magic cables’. I’m still in the process of digging through all the information stored here, but it’s a lot to absorb and I’m hoping someone can help give me a little guidance with the conundrum I’m facing.

So here it is, I‘m finally moving out of apartments and it’s time to build my first real stereo. I’m going for a bit of a moonshot, trying to do it ‘right’ straight outta the gate. However, as you might expect I’m running into the limits of my budget and need guidance on where to make cuts.

About a decade ago I heard some Magneplanar speakers for the first time. I think they were 3.6 or maybe 20.6 models. In either case I was so impressed that here I am today, almost 10 years later, still thinking about how it. My budget will only allow for the 1.7i but I’m trying to make a system around those that ticks all the boxes for me.
After visiting some local hi-fi shops last weekend I picked up the lofty idea of streamlining the experience of playing music. Both shops I visited just handed me an iPad with some app hooked into Tidal et. al. and everything was just a seamless search away. I really want guests to feel comfortable putting music on and most of my friends and family are not the technical type, so this is a fairly high priority. Another lesson from the weekend‘s audio tour is the importance of room treatment, one room was vastly superior to the other and it was immediately clear. From reading here I’ve seen a lot of love for DSP room correction so I’m trying to fit that in too.

The (not so) shortlist of goals is therefore:
1. Simple day-to-day usability/UX. Must include streaming integration.
2. Take the room out of the equation, via physical treatments and digital correction.
3. Must have an optical input to serve as TV speakers.
4. Make it work with 1.7i s.
5. Stay on budget.

The budget is 6k USD, local sales tax is ~10%, so sticker price limit is ~5500.
So far the system is looking like:
Power amps: Emotive PA-1 x2
Speakers: MG 1.7i
Sub: SVS SB-2000
Acoustic Treatments: GIK Impressions corner panels x4 (front wall corners) + A panel or 2 for the rear wall.

That puts me right around $4400. Leaving just about 1000 left to solve digital room correction, and user experience all with a spare optical in.
So far I can’t find a source setup that fits the bill. I‘m not afraid of a project, EQ and initial setup doesn’t have to be simple for me. But I really want daily use to be as non-intimidating as possible.

This is going to be in the living room so a lot of this is subject to, and has passed, spousal approval. I’m considering 6’ tall speakers and decorative acoustic treatments a major win.

The big questions now are:
1. What is/are the main source device(s)?
2. Do I need to care about XLR? Or is RCA fine for interconnects?
3. Do I really need the sub? Or is 800 better spent elsewhere?

Thank you,
T_C
 

Cahudson42

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Simple day-to-day usability/UX. Must include streaming integration.
One easy way for guests - using Amazon Music HD on a $30 'guest,' Fire 7" tablet, casting to an Echo Input (has been as low as $10) connected to your upstream preamp/AVR via analog cd or aux in.

May not be the way you stream yourself, but simply a 'guest alternate' because it's so easy..
 
OP
T
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That's a very interesting approach. I hadn't considered that before.
It definitely tics the box for user friendliness.

I don't think it would be crazy firestick on the TV and the TV's optical out into the stereo. That'd enable a broad range of sources for guests and keep in integrated with a very cheap tablet.

Thanks!
 

SIY

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I'm curious: do things like Dirac work properly for dipole panel speakers?
 

Bald1

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TC,
Your opening where you describe still having a strong desire to own 10 years after first hearing Maggies reminds me of my history. Heard some Magneplanar Tympani IV driven by Bryston amps at a boutique dealership back in the early '70s. Totally blown away. Finally had the space and means for some and bought MGIIIa which I biamped with high current output amps, augmented with a sub I already had, and tweaked the crossovers. This was almost 20 years ago and I'm still enjoying them. :) Never bothered worrying about acoustic treatments as the brick behind the speakers was seen as excellent in handling the bipolar nature of the system. Guests have been complimenting the sound as long as I've had them.

My advice is to start without subwoofer or DSP acoustic tweaking. Enjoy the system for some time before determining if there is any need for a sub or room treatment. No sense spending upfront for stuff if you don't know for certain if it is really needed or will benefit you.

vYdKLls.jpg
 

617

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I'm curious: do things like Dirac work properly for dipole panel speakers?

That's a very interesting question. One of the big reasons dipoles are appealing is that they put much more treble and mids into the reverberant field than any box speaker, which has a downward sloping tonality. I would probably avoid Dirac with dipoles but that's just a hunch.
 

Ron Texas

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The first time I heard Maggies in the 1970's they were way ahead of their time.
 

garbulky

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A person I know used the PA-1's (Which I really like) on his Maggie's and he said it didn't sound all that great with them, that he felt they simply didn't have enough power for loud peaks. I love the PA-1 but perhaps try a beefier amp. Try a used Emotiva XPA-2 gen 2 (or 1). I've heard those on the 1.6's and they sounded really well controlled. You can get the amps for around $650 used. The warranty transfers. Post a want to buy (WTB) ad on the emotiva forums emporium section for this amp and you'll likely get some bites
 
OP
T
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Minidsp SHD[1] would give you room EQ (Dirac Live), xover for subs, streamer with Tidal support and toslink for your TV.

[1] https://www.minidsp.com/products/streaming-hd-series/shd

That looks just about perfect to me. I'll dig into that a little more later, but volumio looks like an interesting solution.

TC,
This was almost 20 years ago and I'm still enjoying them. :) Never bothered worrying about acoustic treatments as the brick behind the speakers was seen as excellent in handling the bipolar nature of the system. Guests have been complimenting the sound as long as I've had them.

My advice is to start without subwoofer or DSP acoustic tweaking. Enjoy the system for some time before determining if there is any need for a sub or room treatment. No sense spending upfront for stuff if you don't know for certain if it is really needed or will benefit you.

That's what I'm aiming for too. My wife doesn't believe me when I say, "I'm trying to make the last stereo I'll ever own."
How is your experience with positioning? I've read they're very finicky. Based on my current living room diagram I'd have about 1.5' to the sides and 1.5'-2' from the front wall, that's why I was considering room treatments from the get go. Perhaps I'm misguided there.

Thanks again,
T_C
 
OP
T
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A person I know used the PA-1's (Which I really like) on his Maggie's and he said it didn't sound all that great with them, that he felt they simply didn't have enough power for loud peaks. I love the PA-1 but perhaps try a beefier amp. Try a used Emotiva XPA-2 gen 2 (or 1). I've heard those on the 1.6's and they sounded really well controlled. You can get the amps for around $650 used. The warranty transfers. Post a want to buy (WTB) ad on the emotiva forums emporium section for this amp and you'll likely get some bites


Thanks for the tip. I've got no problem with buying used for this project, I'll poke around there later tonight.
 

RayDunzl

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The big questions now are:
1. What is/are the main source device(s)?
2. Do I need to care about XLR? Or is RCA fine for interconnects?
3. Do I really need the sub? Or is 800 better spent elsewhere?

1. I don't know
2. RCA is fine.
3. Not at first. Save that for later.
 

RayDunzl

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I'm curious: do things like Dirac work properly for dipole panel speakers?

AcourateDRC works for me. (Think "Acourate Lite" specifically tailored to be easy to use and sized for the miniDSP OpenDRC-DI)

Both speakers playing
48 Hz assymetrical room, fixed now by manually notching out 48Hz on one side
220Hz main dipole - speaker to wall behind dip, though it shows up with the little JBLs too.
440Hz secondary dipole
Requested room curve - flat

1583949041506.png


Left and Right speakers

1583949252992.png


I could apply tilt or limited curve and get similar results, just slanted.

The last half octave could be flattened, but it makes no difference to my deaf ear, and that is approaching the very low impedance range for the speakers (they go down to an ohm or so in the high high end).
 

westyjeff

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I have Magnepan 3.7's, currently in a small apartment, I chose to spend my big money on the source. My chain is Matrix Audio Element X (SD card full of music, stream to Element X from PC, IPhone, IPad, TV into optical port) then into a Crown XLS 2502 because Magnepan's need big power. I have a DBX PA2 Drive rack and DBX microphone I was gong to use for room adjustment but honestly the room is small so whats the point. There are times I can get loud but even at nominal listening levels this setup sounds great. When I get into a bigger space I will consider changing things.
0d79e3f0ef1fa3910308adf7fdeb0155783c3a01_2_666x500.jpeg
 

617

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AcourateDRC works for me. (Think "Acourate Lite" specifically tailored to be easy to use and sized for the miniDSP OpenDRC-DI)

Both speakers playing
48 Hz assymetrical room, fixed now by manually notching out 48Hz on one side
220Hz main dipole - speaker to wall behind dip, though it shows up with the little JBLs too.
440Hz secondary dipole
Requested room curve - flat

View attachment 53843

Left and Right speakers

View attachment 53844

I could apply tilt or limited curve and get similar results, just slanted.

The last half octave could be flattened, but it makes no difference to my deaf ear, and that is approaching the very low impedance range for the speakers (they go down to an ohm or so in the high high end).

I assume you like it better with the room correction then?
 

Wes

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I agree with Bald1's post above. Also, Wendell will tell you to avoid subs, tho many Maggie owners like using them.

I'd look for used 1.7's - you can easily find used 3.7's for $4,000 or less. I did.

Yo can add room tmts. after the speakers are positioned correctly, and based on your room - so do that later.

Be sure the amps can deliver a lot of current into 4 ohms. Otherwise Maggies are easy to drive.

re: front end - I ripped all my CDs to Apple lossless and use my main computer to send the files via AirPlay over WiFi to a used Apple TV3 and then to a pre-amp, etc. This works just fine. If you don't have a bunch of CDs streaming should be fine too.
 

RayDunzl

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I assume you like it better with the room correction then?

When louder, without some correction, the bass gets a bit tubby. 15 to 20dB hot, at SPL levels where the bass should be closer to flat.

See the Blue Line.

1583950954772.png


Louder, think 80 (average-ish) to 100 (peak) dB SPL, the Fletcher Munson curve is pretty flat. I tried the ISO curves and did not like the result.

I can dial the bass down manually, which is what I have right now, as experimentation with the big dip at 48Hz..

I'm too deaf to say what goes on up top. Always have been, so it's not like I've lost it. I blame mother's ear genes. I can't "imagine" higher than I can hear, so, ???

---

The question I attempted to answer was "do things like Dirac work properly for dipole panel speakers?"

I think the answer is "yes", in the case of my thing.
 

RayDunzl

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Here's the manual correction (experimentation) result at the moment.

Both speakers playing is red
Left only is green
Right only is blue.

The right speaker has a big cut applied to quiet it around 50Hz, so that its wave does not cancel (180 degrees out of phase) the wave from the other speaker, at that frequency, in this room, at my listening position.

Sincre 50Hz is not "localizeable", there's no feeling the bass is coming from only one speaker. It would be a problem on recordings with stereo bass coming mostly from the right channel, though.

The overall curve is a little more ragged than shown above, but not bad. No correction above 400 or so.

1583951882886.png


Six manual "corrections" applied to each channel.

Left:

1583951949024.png


Right:

1583951978972.png
 
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