I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF IT.

[daftcombo]

Probably a volume difference.
Could you record the output with both sets of cables?

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

I get the feeling that the OP just wants to tell their story and won’t be particularly interested in attempts to explain their new found belief.

 

[daftcombo]

I also experienced once a change in sound when replacing RCA+RCA female TO JACK 3.5'' female ADAPTOR+JACK 3.5'' with RCA TO JACK 3.5''. So I am sure it is possible.
The former combination was not good practice.

 

[Chrispy]

I also experienced once a change in sound when replacing RCA+RCA female TO JACK 3.5'' female ADAPTOR+JACK 3.5'' with RCA TO JACK 3.5''. So I am sure it is possible.
The former combination was not good practice.

That wasn't a "do not wye" situation I hope

 

[daftcombo]

That wasn't a "do not wye" situation I hope

Actuallt I got back to the combination bacause it luckily tamed the highs of too bright speakers.

 

[Duke]

Part II will, hopefully, be coming later tonight. Although a few respondents have taken the wind out of my sails. To repeat: I am not a scientist. Nothing that's written here concerns the scientific method. There will be no A/B/X testing. Anecdotal experience of the purest sort. Nor am I a dealer trying to slip in a sales pitch. I suggest that both of you, and anyone else wishing wishing to make such malicious comments, read something else. I'm not going to get defensive but I will say: 1) All 99.9999 percent OFC cables is supposed to sound the same, at least as far as I know. That's the only kind I'm discussing. 2) The changes occurred over a few months. Only one variable changed at a time. 3) I don't have a point to make. Spoiler alert: I don't even know what it all means.

Belief in science (which is a hallmark of this site) does not confer immunity to confirmation bias. In fact intelligent people are actually more creative at coming up with explanations which confirm their beliefs. (Imo we would do well be somewhat skeptical of our skepticisms, but that's another topic for another day.)

I was a cable skeptic too. Still am. But... I heard a difference. So did another cable manufacturer who was in the room at the same time, so much so that he quit making cables and became a dealer for the other company. I'm not good at making a case for an audible difference which I cannot explain, and there is no faster way to lose credibility around here. But I wanted to let you know that you are not the only one to hear a difference which you did not expect and cannot justify to the satisfaction of skeptics.

For the record, I am not commercially affiliated with any cable manufacturer.

 

[LTig]

The problem with confirmation bias is that one cannot get rid of it even if one think one knows how it works. This is not how it works.

 

[Chrispy]

Belief in science (which is a hallmark of this site) does not confer immunity to confirmation bias. In fact intelligent people are actually more creative at coming up with explanations which confirm their beliefs. (Imo we would do well be somewhat skeptical of our skepticisms, but that's another topic for another day.)

I was a cable skeptic too. Still am. But... I heard a difference. So did another cable manufacturer who was in the room at the same time, so much so that he quit making cables and became a dealer for the other company. I'm not good at making a case for an audible difference which I cannot explain, and there is no faster way to lose credibility around here. But I wanted to let you know that you are not the only one to hear a difference which you did not expect and cannot justify to the satisfaction of skeptics.

For the record, I am not commercially affiliated with any cable manufacturer.

Well in a way too late for that once you say what you just did. But with your speaker chops I'm just curious now what the conditions and gear and cable were and who the other gentleman was etc...

 

[Duke]

Well in a way too late for that once you say what you just did. But with your speaker chops I'm just curious now what the conditions and gear and cable were and who the other gentleman was etc...

The audibility of cables being highly controversial, I'd rather not give out any names besides my own. To allege that so-and-so "said they heard a difference" between cables would not be doing them a favor around here. I am free to tarnish my own reputation, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

We were setting up a system in a hotel room the day before an audio show. There were four people in the room, myself and two electronics manufacturers, one of whom also manufactured cables, plus a mutual friend who did not own any of our products. There was another cable company who had offered to let us use their products, but they were not actually helping to pay for the room (unlike the aforementioned electronics manufacturer). This second cable company had not arrived at the show by the time we were ready to hook everything up so we used the electronics manufacturer's cables.

Then later that evening someone from the second cable company stopped by the room and dropped off a large cardboard box full of cables, saying we were welcome to use whatever we wanted, or to use none of them, whatever. Very low-key. Then they left, and we didn't see them again until the next day.

The two electronics manufacturers decided that the thing to do was to listen and change one cable at a time and listen again to see which sounded better. This was all of course sighted, but we did not have the time nor necessary tools to do a series of controlled blind listening tests. Being a) skeptical and b) mistrustful of my ears' ability to hear the kinds of differences a cabling change might make even if they did exist, I sat in the back of the room with my mouth shut while the others slowly went through the system, changing one cable at a time (well two at a time, one for each channel), and listening to the same pieces of music over and over to decide which sounded best.

Each time a change was made I'd mistrust my own opinion and not say anything but the other three all seemed to agree. And each time they preferred the new cables. (Sometimes I thought I heard a difference and agreed with them, and sometimes I did not think I heard a difference). In particular if anyone had a dog in the fight, it was the electronics + cable manufacturer whose money was invested in the room.

The final cable change was by far the most interesting. The speakers we were using had two sets of inputs, one feeding a forward-facing array of drivers, and the other feeding a rear-facing array. The rear-facing array's net contribution to the sound pressure level at the listening position was very small, less than .2 (point two) decibels. The speaker cables feeding the rear-facing array were the last to be changed. I thought it was really stupid to change these cables because the net contribution of the rear-facing array was so small, but the two electronics manufacturers were so into what they were doing that I said nothing. But I knew this final cable change could not possibly make any remotely audible difference - any difference would have to be imaginary, and I quietly rolled my eyes that this wasn't obvious in advance to both of them.

Dammit. I could hear a difference, again an improvement. I heard it right away, long before they were finished listening. Not sure whether this was the biggest audible difference of the night, but it was certainly the most impossible. And everyone else in the room heard it too.

I could not keep my mouth shut any longer. I said (to no one in particular), "How is that possible? The contribution of those rear-firing drivers is tiny!" The other electronics manufacturer (the one who did not make cables, and who might be described as "way, way out on the tail end of the bell curve") gave his analysis. It was an explanation that I had never heard before (and have never heard since), and which I will not repeat because it would reveal what I believe to be a trade secret of the cable manufacturer. But it actually sounded plausible to me.

By the end of the show, the electronics/cabling manufacturer I was sharing the room with had started making arrangements to become a dealer for the other cable company, which he followed through on, and is no longer a cable manufacturer. The company that makes the preferred cabling is Clarity Cable of Wichita, Kansas.

 

[JSmith]

I get the feeling that the OP just wants to tell their story and won’t be particularly interested in attempts to explain their new found belief.

Agree, a nice way to say it though. The further hint is the capitals/yelling in the thread title...

JSmith

 

[ahofer]

Dear Penthouse Forum....

 

[Spkrdctr]

Dear Penthouse Forum....

Best post of the month! LOL Freaking Awesome!

 

[Chrispy]

The audibility of cables being highly controversial, I'd rather not give out any names besides my own. To allege that so-and-so "said they heard a difference" between cables would not be doing them a favor around here. I am free to tarnish my own reputation, but that's as far as I'm willing to go.

We were setting up a system in a hotel room the day before an audio show. There were four people in the room, myself and two electronics manufacturers, one of whom also manufactured cables, plus a mutual friend who did not own any of our products. There was another cable company who had offered to let us use their products, but they were not actually helping to pay for the room (unlike the aforementioned electronics manufacturer). This second cable company had not arrived at the show by the time we were ready to hook everything up so we used the electronics manufacturer's cables.

Then later that evening someone from the second cable company stopped by the room and dropped off a large cardboard box full of cables, saying we were welcome to use whatever we wanted, or to use none of them, whatever. Very low-key. Then they left, and we didn't see them again until the next day.

The two electronics manufacturers decided that the thing to do was to listen and change one cable at a time and listen again to see which sounded better. This was all of course all sighted, but we did not have the time nor necessary tools to do a series of controlled blind listening tests. Being a) skeptical and b) mistrustful of my ears' ability to hear the kinds of differences a cabling change might make even if they did exist, I sat in the back of the room with my mouth shut while the others slowly went through the system, changing one cable at a time (well two at a time, one for each channel), and listening to the same pieces of music over and over to decide which sounded best.

Each time a change was made I'd mistrust my own opinion and not say anything but the other three all seemed to agree. And each time they preferred the new cables. (Sometimes I thought I heard a difference and agreed with them, and sometimes I did not think I heard a difference). In particular if anyone had a dog in the fight, it was the electronics + cable manufacturer whose money was invested in the room.

The final cable change was by far the most interesting. The speakers we were using had two sets of inputs, one feeding a forward-facing array of drivers, and the other feeding a rear-facing array. The rear-facing array's net contribution to the sound pressure level at the listening position was very small, less than .2 (point two) decibels. The speaker cables feeding the rear-facing array were the last to be changed. I thought it was really stupid to change these cables because the net contribution of the rear-facing array was so small, but the two electronics manufacturers were so into what they were doing that I said nothing. But I knew this final cable change could not possibly make any remotely audible difference - any difference would have to be imaginary, and I quietly rolled my eyes that this wasn't obvious in advance to both of them.

Dammit. I could hear a difference, again an improvement. I heard it right away, long before they were finished listening. Not sure whether this was the biggest audible difference of the night, but it was certainly the most impossible. And everyone else in the room heard it too.

I could not keep my mouth shut any longer. I said (to no one in particular), "How is that possible? The contribution of those rear-firing drivers is tiny!" The other electronics manufacturer (the one who did not make cables, and who might be described as "way, way out on the tail end of the bell curve") gave his analysis. It was an explanation that I had never heard before (and have never heard since), and which I will not repeat because it would reveal what I believe to be a trade secret of the cable manufacturer. But it actually sounded plausible to me.

By the end of the show, the electronics/cabling manufacturer I was sharing the room with had started making arrangements to become a dealer for the other cable company, which he followed through on, and is no longer a cable manufacturer. The company that makes the preferred cabling is Clarity Cable of Wichita, Kansas.

Interesting, thanks....never heard of Clarity otoh and completely understand about naming someone else (well unless they wanted to be mentioned)

 

[escksu]

Not too sure what that poster is referring to. Amir's measured cables in a number of cases, and sometimes found very expensive ones to have poor shielding, but no audible differences in any case that I can recall. And a study that claimed to show differences was lambasted for poor peer review and terrible methodology.

Amirm had a cable roundup a few years ago. He found that several low cost speaker cables are mixed of aluminum + copper, not entirely copper (I think its copper clad). These copper clad cables should be avoided. I still remember one of the reason is that the higher resistance can cause distortion. 12AWG is also recommend for speaker cables. This is the difference I am referring to. You can search for the review.

Btw, regarding shielding. Unless you run very long lengths or your environment has extremely high interference, unshielded cables will usually work fine. Most users usually have just 1-2m for interconnects and 2-4m for speaker cables. However, amirm's reviews are NOT meant to show that shielding is not needed in all situations. In cases where you run very long cables (20-30m) you will still need shielding, or use XLR instead of RCA. Speaker cables are mostly unshielded, so care must be taken when installing them. Never run them together with power cables.

I do not have any scientific data to show but these are common industry practice.

 

[g-force]

i was once a cable skeptic also. I had some Straight-wire which at $60 -1/2 price seemed like a good deal. A couple of decades passed and last year I found some PS xStream Statement cables at the re-use-it for $50 bucks. They are pythons to manage but as soon as I heard them I heard MORE. Space, Imaging and Tinkling ( which of these words is a factual audio-term ? )
But the biggest difference was swapping the ol' Audioengine d1 for a Topping E30. ( Celestion 5000/ Yaquin 2100 too; but so what ) The important thing is this: If it isn't 'Convincing' it sure is 'Entertaining'.

 

[Chrispy]

Amirm had a cable roundup a few years ago. He found that several low cost speaker cables are mixed of aluminum + copper, not entirely copper (I think its copper clad). These copper clad cables should be avoided. I still remember one of the reason is that the higher resistance can cause distortion. 12AWG is also recommend for speaker cables. This is the difference I am referring to. You can search for the review.

Btw, regarding shielding. Unless you run very long lengths or your environment has extremely high interference, unshielded cables will usually work fine. Most users usually have just 1-2m for interconnects and 2-4m for speaker cables. However, amirm's reviews are NOT meant to show that shielding is not needed in all situations. In cases where you run very long cables (20-30m) you will still need shielding, or use XLR instead of RCA. Speaker cables are mostly unshielded, so care must be taken when installing them. Never run them together with power cables.

I do not have any scientific data to show but these are common industry practice.

CCA (copper clad aluminum) speaker wire you get similar resistance if you go down 3 gauge....but they also have some mechanical problems nor is there really any reason to use them particularly unless really strapped for cash or something.....

 

[beeface]

Anecdotal experience of the purest sort.

Hmm. Cite your sources please.

 

[JSmith]

Btw, regarding shielding. Unless you run very long lengths or your environment has extremely high interference, unshielded cables will usually work fine.

Yep...

Even in high-RF urban environments, shielding of interconnects is prudent, but not usually necessary.

Shields add capacitance to the interconnect, so they should be used only when absolutely necessary.

http://www.empiricalaudio.com/computer-audio/technical-papers/myths-and-snake-oil



JSmith

 

[Doodski]

All these testimonies of cable sound improvements. I heard one cable that sounded "different" It had less bass and the treble was slightly stronger. Why? Because it was changing the sound. Why? Because it was designed and manufactured for use as a phono DIN cable. I chopped off the DIN end and soldered on RCA terminations and then tested it. The difference was tiny tiny tiny. Other than that I have owned MIT, Audioquest, Monster and those cheap generic cables that come with gear. They all sounded the same but the termination connections had better integrity than the cheapO RCA cables. You people are imagining things or using cables that are changing the sound from it's original sound.

 

[g-force]

All these testimonies of cable sound improvements. I heard one cable that sounded "different" It had less bass and the treble was slightly stronger. Why? Because it was changing the sound. Why? Because it was designed and manufactured for use as a phone DIN cable. I chopped off the DIN end and soldered on RCA terminations and then tested it. The difference was tiny tiny tiny. Other than that I have owned MIT, Audioquest, Monster and those cheap generic cables that come with gear. They all sounded the same but the termination connections had better integrity than the cheapO RCA cables. You people are imagining things or using cables that are changing the sound from it's original sound.

I figure that the biggest single difference in sound quality and the rest is to listen to Frank Z. My stereo always sounds better with FZ.