I DON’T KNOW WHAT TO MAKE OF IT.

[Chluke]

I’ve essentially upgraded my entire system over the past six months. I had no plans to change the cables. Why bother?

My speaker cables were approaching their 20th birthday but they seemed fine. The outsides looked good, so did the actual copper inside. Long ago, I bought a pair of Paradigm speakers. A good salesman because before I knew what was happening, I had spent $100 on cables. Even back then I wasn’t so dumb. I don’t know if they had a brand name but they had Cardes (Cardas?) stamped on the run of cable. Over the years,, their presence has been questioned. But $100. How bad could they be.

I don’t know anything about the interconnects. They were a step up from the ones that came in the box but more than that I can’t say. I certainly never spent serious money on them.

Full disclosure: I have no scientific knowledge about audio whatsoever.

That didn’t stop me from being a full blown cable skeptic. I sounded like I had a PhD in physics. “Don’t you realize that the measurements at the speaker end are identical no matter what you use? How can you waste money like that? A guy wired a system together with coat hangers and it measured the same! Confirmation bias! Oedipus complex!” Then I would walk away, shaking my head at another victim of the military/audio/media/industrial complex.

As part of my system makeover, I bought a used Arcam A19 integrated amplifier. The seller and I hit it off. He knew a lot about audio equipment. Dealer level knowledge, But he was part of the establishment, he wasn’t questioning the received knowledge.

He was appalled at my cables and went on at length about my need for decent cables. Almost out of sorrow at what I was missing. So I finally bought a set. Partly to shut him up, partly because it would be foolish to ignore something accepted by so many intelligent people. Cables by Q Accoustics, the speaker company. Residents in this “What Hi-Fi” Budget Buys Hall of Fame. Seriously. Used for about $75. Expecting absolutely nothing, I hooked them up.

I’m not going to search for adjectives to describe what happened. I’ll just say that the sound was different. Not better but different.

I was stunned. It wasn’t supposed to be different. All cables sound like same. The measurements prove it. But the difference wasn’t subtle, it was unmistakable.

To be continued in Part II.

 

[Sir Sanders Zingmore]

Some thoughts:
1) New system… it’s not clear but you aren’t comparing old system + old cables with new system + new cables. Are you?

2) the internet is rife with “I was a non believer …” stories. The fact that you didn’t think cables would make a difference does not protect you from sighted bias. Get someone to switch the cables without you knowing which is which.

3) all cables that are good enough, will sound pretty much identical. It’s possible that your old cables were not good enough (corroded, poorly made etc).

 

[Mart68]

'Dealer level knowledge' - I'm sure there must be some dealers who have some worthwhile knowledge but I've never encountered one yet.

Their heads seem to be full of the same nonsense you read in the magazines, or nowadays get to listen to on Youtube.

 

[JSmith]

Not better but different.

Please describe your comparison procedure...



JSmith

 

[sergeauckland]

'Dealer level knowledge' - I'm sure there must be some dealers who have some worthwhile knowledge but I've never encountered one yet.

Their heads seem to be full of the same nonsense you read in the magazines, or nowadays get to listen to on Youtube.

Mostly this. I've known one dealer that has, if not deep technical knowledge, at least a deep scepticism for what magazines and manufacturers promote, but he's a rare beast.


S

 

[drplinker]

I’ve essentially upgraded my entire system over the past six months. I had no plans to change the cables. Why bother?

My speaker cables were approaching their 20th birthday but they seemed fine. The outsides looked good, so did the actual copper inside. Long ago, I bought a pair of Paradigm speakers. A good salesman because before I knew what was happening, I had spent $100 on cables. Even back then I wasn’t so dumb. I don’t know if they had a brand name but they had Cardes (Cardas?) stamped on the run of cable. Over the years,, their presence has been questioned. But $100. How bad could they be.

I don’t know anything about the interconnects. They were a step up from the ones that came in the box but more than that I can’t say. I certainly never spent serious money on them.

Full disclosure: I have no scientific knowledge about audio whatsoever.

That didn’t stop me from being a full blown cable skeptic. I sounded like I had a PhD in physics. “Don’t you realize that the measurements at the speaker end are identical no matter what you use? How can you waste money like that? A guy wired a system together with coat hangers and it measured the same! Confirmation bias! Oedipus complex!” Then I would walk away, shaking my head at another victim of the military/audio/media/industrial complex.

As part of my system makeover, I bought a used Arcam A19 integrated amplifier. The seller and I hit it off. He knew a lot about audio equipment. Dealer level knowledge, But he was part of the establishment, he wasn’t questioning the received knowledge.

He was appalled at my cables and went on at length about my need for decent cables. Almost out of sorrow at what I was missing. So I finally bought a set. Partly to shut him up, partly because it would be foolish to ignore something accepted by so many intelligent people. Cables by Q Accoustics, the speaker company. Residents in this “What Hi-Fi” Budget Buys Hall of Fame. Seriously. Used for about $75. Expecting absolutely nothing, I hooked them up.

I’m not going to search for adjectives to describe what happened. I’ll just say that the sound was different. Not better but different.

I was stunned. It wasn’t supposed to be different. All cables sound like same. The measurements prove it. But the difference wasn’t subtle, it was unmistakable.

To be continued in Part II.

Are you using banana plugs ? Could it be that old ones did not make contact properly ? Or corrosion residue due to humidity?

I hope you are not a dealer trying to peddle another cable-wonder story

 

[VintageFlanker]

 

[Katji]

Ok, are you or are you not considering Psychology?

 

[escksu]

I was stunned. It wasn’t supposed to be different. All cables sound like same. The measurements prove it. But the difference wasn’t subtle, it was unmistakable.

To be continued in Part II.

Actually amirm has already mentioned that cables do not sound the same, this is because of the resistance (esp. from those aluminum alloy ones).

 

[Chluke]

Part II will, hopefully, be coming later tonight. Although a few respondents have taken the wind out of my sails. To repeat: I am not a scientist. Nothing that's written here concerns the scientific method. There will be no A/B/X testing. Anecdotal experience of the purest sort. Nor am I a dealer trying to slip in a sales pitch. I suggest that both of you, and anyone else wishing wishing to make such malicious comments, read something else. I'm not going to get defensive but I will say: 1) All 99.9999 percent OFC cables is supposed to sound the same, at least as far as I know. That's the only kind I'm discussing. 2) The changes occurred over a few months. Only one variable changed at a time. 3) I don't have a point to make. Spoiler alert: I don't even know what it all means.

 

[Gregss]

Part II will, hopefully, be coming later tonight. Although a few respondents have taken the wind out of my sails. To repeat: I am not a scientist. Nothing that's written here concerns the scientific method. There will be no A/B/X testing. Anecdotal experience of the purest sort. Nor am I a dealer trying to slip in a sales pitch. I suggest that both of you, and anyone else wishing wishing to make such malicious comments, read something else. I'm not going to get defensive but I will say: 1) All 99.9999 percent OFC cables is supposed to sound the same, at least as far as I know. That's the only kind I'm discussing. 2) The changes occurred over a few months. Only one variable changed at a time. 3) I don't have a point to make. Spoiler alert: I don't even know what it all means.

 

[Tim Link]

Are you using banana plugs ? Could it be that old ones did not make contact properly ? Or corrosion residue due to humidity?

I hope you are not a dealer trying to peddle another cable-wonder story

I've definitely had lots of experience with my contacts not being good. Using those plastic screw on binders on the back of my amp to attach bare wire was not reliable. Those darn plastic threaded things would back off, creating a weak connection and causing a channel to fade, which in my case would alter the tone and stereo imaging because it is a 3 way active crossover setup. I switched to gold plated banana plugs and haven't had a problem since.

 

[Gregss]

Hello,

While with speaker wires with low enough resistance (12 gauge is generally fine for most setups unless you have speakers that have huge current demand to work well or a very long run needed.) there should be very little difference. This assumes good contacts between the wire, connectors used and the amp & speaker posts. IMHO.

FWIW: Connections can degrade (oxidize) over time so that is a possibility assuming everything had good solid connections to start with.

 

[MakeMineVinyl]

How tight you tighten down the binding posts on the wire or the spring tension of banana plugs used have more potential to make a difference in sound than the choice of cables (given that they are sufficient gauge). A slight increase of contact resistance either at the speaker or amplifier terminals can alter frequency response. It doesn't take much, and most people don't consider this aspect.

 

[Midwest Blade]

Not the first, nor will you be the last. Plenty of misdirection on cables form all sorts of sources. The real story is you need not spend exorbitant amounts of money to connect your speakers or components, high quality is relatively affordable by all.

 

[DonH56]

A trivial change in volume can make a big difference in relative sound. It is possible the old connections were oxidized or loose and making poor contact and all that jazz, but most of the time I heard an expectedly large change, it was because I (or someone) made a very small change in volume. "This sounds better, doesn't it? Crank it up!" That said, if you had not retightened connections in 20 years, there could certainly be some connection issues.

You could set the volume, listen a bit, turn it off and swap back to the old cables, listen again at the same volume setting. But now that you "know" there is a difference, real or not (it could be real), bias will come into play. It would be great if somebody else switched cables out of sight, including keeping himself (or herself) out of sight so there were no body language clues for your eyes (or cover your eyes with a bandana or something).

In the past I would take notes about specific passages or phrases, even key notes or drum strikes, in a short piece of music that sounded way better with the new component (wire, whatever). More often than not, when I swapped back to the old <whatever> and listened again, the difference evaporated. It was mostly from more focused listening, not something new in the music I'd never heard before. It was there all along. Humbling.

 

[Chrispy]

Actually amirm has already mentioned that cables do not sound the same, this is because of the resistance (esp. from those aluminum alloy ones).

As perhaps a remote possibility in a poor cable?

 

[Chrispy]

Part II will, hopefully, be coming later tonight. Although a few respondents have taken the wind out of my sails. To repeat: I am not a scientist. Nothing that's written here concerns the scientific method. There will be no A/B/X testing. Anecdotal experience of the purest sort. Nor am I a dealer trying to slip in a sales pitch. I suggest that both of you, and anyone else wishing wishing to make such malicious comments, read something else. I'm not going to get defensive but I will say: 1) All 99.9999 percent OFC cables is supposed to sound the same, at least as far as I know. That's the only kind I'm discussing. 2) The changes occurred over a few months. Only one variable changed at a time. 3) I don't have a point to make. Spoiler alert: I don't even know what it all means.

Anecdotes are fun to read sometimes but generally not particularly interesting. Much more likely in your head....

 

[Sancus]

As perhaps a remote possibility in a poor cable?

Not too sure what that poster is referring to. Amir's measured cables in a number of cases, and sometimes found very expensive ones to have poor shielding, but no audible differences in any case that I can recall. And a study that claimed to show differences was lambasted for poor peer review and terrible methodology.

The changes occurred over a few months. Only one variable changed at a time. 3) I don't have a point to make. Spoiler alert: I don't even know what it all means.

Spoiler alert, it means you're a human subject to human biases. I don't even fully trust anything I hear with level-matched A/B comparisons that take longer than a few hundred milliseconds to switch.

 

[Chrispy]

@Chluke you might take a read or two around this site as well http://roger-russell.com/wire/wire.htm