I cannot trust the Harman speaker preference score

[375HP2482]

I found the Harmon score offered a false sense of security and my preference was much different. In fact the @amirm listening test portion of ASR reviews is quite a bit more helpful - and I give it considerably more weight than the Harmon score.

Amir usually listens to bookshelf speakers as nearfield monitors, reducing the portion (38%) of the scoring that relies on reflections. Which may explain some of the differences.

 

[steve59]

Idk if it’s been addressed but did anybody hear the 328be at axpona? I nearly checked behind the speakers to affirm the woofers were wired. I know better than to assess quality on show conditions and only use this to suggest there’s so much more to a great sounding system than putting a single speaker on a platform and pushing it into a room alongside where the previous speaker was. Not exactly the same place, only the same distance from the front and back wall. Toe in can make or break the stereo experience and it isn even addressed, never mind the additional bas loading from the second speaker. For all the hype I see the hk test as a well executed attempt to make a revel speaker win a listening comparison. That revel released the thread in a general consumer forum like avs was just smart marketing.

 

[Newman]

What do you mean, “Revel released the thread in a general consumer forum like AVS”? Anyway, your marketing conspiracy theory doesn’t hold up.

Firstly, Dr Olive published his regression model papers in AES, a professional/academic forum.

Secondly, as Dr Toole has explained 6 weeks ago (many years after retiring from Harman), his issues, with the Consumer Reports model of loudspeaker measurement for accuracy, started many years before he joined Harman.

Thirdly, Dr Olive’s model uses blind listener preferences of many loudspeakers and from that derives a measurement that corresponds with preference. He didn’t start with Revel speaker measurements and derive a model that transfers Revel measurements to top score.

cheers

 

[steve59]

How to choose the perfect loudspeaker, what the science shows is the thread title that went up. Search it on the avs forum. That itself isn’t offensive so much as all the new ‘experts’ that have popped up in every third post damn near everywhere online since its inception parroting Dr Tooles words.
For multichannel and casual listening the system is probably fine, but any way you slice it it’s self serving marketing. This wasn’t a white paper sitting in their files it was a test revel used to make their speakers sound superior than the competition and then used Dr Tooles name as validation to that point to post on avs.

 

[steve59]

The harman test doesn’t even address amplifier requirements making it no more useful than not having the test at all…if the individual is looking for the ‘perfect’ 2 channel speakers.

 

[steve59]

i’ve become a bore and am checking out. Pease

 

[sarumbear]

How to choose the perfect loudspeaker, what the science shows is the thread title that went up. Search it on the avs forum. That itself isn’t offensive so much as all the new ‘experts’ that have popped up in every third post damn near everywhere online since its inception parroting Dr Tooles words.
For multichannel and casual listening the system is probably fine, but any way you slice it it’s self serving marketing. This wasn’t a white paper sitting in their files it was a test revel used to make their speakers sound superior than the competition and then used Dr Tooles name as validation to that point to post on avs.

You are very much mistaken. The original research that led to "score" was done before HK was involved.

Besides, can you show me any examples of those "self serving marketing" material?

 

[steve59]

it's all there POST 1084, did you go to avs and look it up. if you read it one way and I read it another, well, cheers

 

[Newman]

Post #1084 in that AVS thread is all about room correction algorithms. It says nothing about the speaker preference score, that this thread is about. And definitely nothing that counts as marketing.

PS the thread's title is "How to choose a loudspeaker - what the science shows", not how to choose the perfect loudspeaker as you wrote.

 

[sarumbear]

it's all there POST 1084, did you go to avs and look it up. if you read it one way and I read it another, well, cheers

I asked links for Harman’s marketing material that supports your view, as you keep telling us, not other people’s views on a forum.

 

[steve59]

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/how-to-choose-a-loudspeaker-what-the-science-shows.3038828/#:~:text=How%20to%20Choose%20a%20Loudspeaker%20%2D%2D%20What%20the%20Science%20Shows

The free marketing begins on post 4.

 

[sarumbear]

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/how-to-choose-a-loudspeaker-what-the-science-shows.3038828/#:~:text=How%20to%20Choose%20a%20Loudspeaker%20%2D%2D%20What%20the%20Science%20Shows

The free marketing begins on post 4.

There is no Harman marketing material on that link!

 

[steve59]

Ok,

 

[garbz]

Wait... You think independently prepare performance graphs comparing speakers is free marketing? Do you even understand the term or are you using it in jest?

 

[sarumbear]

Ok,

Sorry I didn’t understand what you meant by that.

 

[steve59]

#1087,

If revel showed progress within the company that would be science. when they spend resources to convince the readers their method is best and then use it against other brands to show superiority that's marketing.
If you don't see it that way I don't care. You're arguing for the sake of it.

If revel used the results to show how they are moving forward that's science , when they use it to show superiority to other brands it's marketing. Can you hear me? Don't care if anyone agrees but give any speaker manufacturer their own room, own amps and then design a test which nobody listens to music by and fine declare your gen3 is better than gen 2, but bring other speakers into your conditions and tell me what. Nah.

That's all I got. Please stop asking the same question over and over. Enjoy the music on any system you want. Pease out.

 

[Alice of Old Vincennes]

#1087,

If revel showed progress within the company that would be science. when they spend resources to convince the readers their method is best and then use it against other brands to show superiority that's marketing.
If you don't see it that way I don't care. You're arguing for the sake of it.

If revel used the results to show how they are moving forward that's science , when they use it to show superiority to other brands it's marketing. Can you hear me? Don't care if anyone agrees but give any speaker manufacturer their own room, own amps and then design a test which nobody listens to music by and fine declare your gen3 is better than gen 2, but bring other speakers into your conditions and tell me what. Nah.

That's all I got. Please stop asking the same question over and over. Enjoy the music on any system you want. Pease out.

Revel doesn't market heavily. General public has never heard of the brand.

 

[Newman]

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/how-to-choose-a-loudspeaker-what-the-science-shows.3038828/#:~:text=How%20to%20Choose%20a%20Loudspeaker%20%2D%2D%20What%20the%20Science%20Shows

The free marketing begins on post 4.

Yet on post #319 you are taking issue with people who say the thread comes across as an advertisement...

 

[Axo1989]

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/how-to-choose-a-loudspeaker-what-the-science-shows.3038828/#:~:text=How%20to%20Choose%20a%20Loudspeaker%20%2D%2D%20What%20the%20Science%20Shows

The free marketing begins on post 4.

That or #3 ...

Yet on post #319 you are taking issue with people who say the thread comes across as an advertisement...

You know what they say about a foolish consistency.

 

[holbob]

That or #3 ...

You know what they say about a foolish consistency.

Or in this case, a foolish conspiracy