How long before the ShenzhenAudio boys take a crack at HT processors?

[Dougey_Jones]

Pretty big. That's why they keep making new formats. No one's made an open source decoders for any of the "3D" height channel formats yet. Not sure about the "HD" formats.

If you're fine with 7.1 then an HTPC with a multichannel DAC will fulfill all your SINAD fantasies.

You make it sound like this configuration is widespread, well measured or easy to execute..

Please list a proven HTPC configuration that will deliver “all my SINAD fantasies”.

 

[Vasr]

You make it sound like this configuration is widespread, well measured or easy to execute..

Please list a proven HTPC configuration that will deliver “all my SINAD fantasies”.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ring-a-pc-as-a-8-ch-pre-pro-experiment.14785/

Step-by-step as an added bonus.

Use Okto 8 Pro as your DAC for your SINAD fantasies.

As long as all the digital processing is done in the PC, there is no impact on SINAD.

 

[Vasr]

This might be a silly question, but how big a hurdle is this? there are open source implementations of surround sound decoders that could be used surely, and meridian famously wrote their own DD and DTS decoders and I believe their processors use them to this day (at least for old school DD and DTS, they rely on source decoding for HD audio codecs now).

so how does ffmpeg do it, and could that kind of technology be used rather than official silicon?

Not a silly question but I am not sure you understand the commercial aspects of this or the necessary hardware implementations of this in audio equipment.

1. Reverse-engineered descriptions of copy-righted and IP-protected proprietary formats may exist in public and may be used for your personal education or other forms of "fair use" but it would not allow a commercial entity to use that to within a commercial product without a license. Moreover, they would not be allowed to participate in a DRM-enabled chain.

2. In any case, the "open-source" isn't exactly relevant since most of the major audio manufacturers write their own software for these codecs. First, because it must be implemented in hardware for "real-time" use to avoid decoding delays (software players that also decode the video adjust he delays between them to avoid lip-sync problems so you don't notice it). Typically, third party chips with these codecs in the firmware are used in the AVRs. They cannot be used legally for commercial distribution without acquiring the proper licenses. Implementing their own in firmware would not get around the licensing and it isn't a feasible route for many audio companies even in the AVR business.

So, it is not a technical barrier for incorporating these codecs but a business model one to (1) include the licensing costs in the BOM and (2) have a fast product cycle to keep them updated with latest versions of the proprietary standards.

 

[Dougey_Jones]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ring-a-pc-as-a-8-ch-pre-pro-experiment.14785/

Step-by-step as an added bonus.

Use Okto 8 Pro as your DAC for your SINAD fantasies.

As long as all the digital processing is done in the PC, there is no impact on SINAD.

That looks like a complete nightmare to use, and I’ve been building computers for 25 years and am very proficient with software config.

 

[Vasr]

That looks like a complete nightmare to use, and I’ve been building computers for 25 years and am very proficient with software config.

(1) That wasn't the question and (2) second with some media player like Kodi, the required commands are mapped to a single remote and (3) almost all of the required configuration is one-time and only media control and volume mapped to a remote for daily use.

As mentioned in that guide, it is still not a direct competitor to AVRs for various reasons but a proof-of-concept that works within its limits. It is cheap to do (for 7.1 or less) and with software like madVR for the video processing, can have a better HT experience than expensive AVR/TV combinations (better HDR processing, scaling, etc).

But SINAD isn't a limitation here keeping only digital processing within the PC.

 

[Matias]

I suggested the same to @JohnYang1997. I believe Topping could license HDMI, Dolby and DTS, and create a killer AV processor (without speaker amps) if they wanted to. Lots of potential.

 

[mhardy6647]

Topping DX3 Pro is my only electronic device that failed in last 10 years. No thanks.

Yeah, but that's a feature in the HT world. Since the hardware's obsolete in 24 months, no reason for it to last a week longer than necessary.

 

[Lbstyling]

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ring-a-pc-as-a-8-ch-pre-pro-experiment.14785/

Step-by-step as an added bonus.

Use Okto 8 Pro as your DAC for your SINAD fantasies.

As long as all the digital processing is done in the PC, there is no impact on SINAD.

Dolby Atmos is not possible using a PC, and will not be for the foreseeable future.

Even DTSMA is a hack to decode with a PC.

 

[Vasr]

Dolby Atmos is not possible using a PC, and will not be for the foreseeable future.

Even DTSMA is a hack to decode with a PC.

Yes anything beyond 7.1 and with newer codecs is at best work in progress. I have had no problems with DTS-HD MA or TrueHD using LAV decoders. DTS-HD HRA is a different issue. Or getting the non-atmos content out of Atmos encoded streams as they are all backward compatible.

There is a lot of content and setups that don't require anything more. DRM protected content is a bigger problem that prevents licensed stand-alone digital decoders.

You can bit-stream to a downstream DRM-compliant system like an AVR which makes the value of the HTPC questionable except as a media player.

 

[AudioJester]

Topping DX3 Pro is my only electronic device that failed in last 10 years. No thanks.

Was it still under warranty? Were yiu able to get it fixed?

 

[Senior NEET Engineer]

Was it still under warranty? Were yiu able to get it fixed?

I think it is still under warranty. I will send it in soon. Using JDS Element II instead now.

 

[Sal1950]

I'd love to have a pre-configured PC-HT distribution available, as I'm sure many here would also. But we are a small group of fanatics that have at least a medium technical background and won't have a cerebral hemorrhage over the thought of the learning curve. There are some options out there but seems a very few get onboard with them. My personal favorite Linux (PCLinuxOS) is whats known as a "rolling distro", being able to keep up-to-date with a simple download of the latest packages on a fairly regular interval which you decide. I could invision a more compicated version which could be near obsolesce-proof which package updates and the occasional installation of new boards as needed.
A dream I know, but I've been a part of this Linux distro's progression for a couple decades now. When we forked this distro off Mandrake and set out to make it a "install once then just keep updated", many in the community said it couldn't be done. As I remember we were the first to put the "rolling distro" to market. It wasn't always perfect and we ran into a few roadblocks over the last 20 years but the idea has been smoothed and I believe with the right development team the concept could be perfected.
We all have our dreams.

 

[yllanos]

Could be the cost of licensing of all those proprietary technologies we take from granted. I think those companies have the engineering and manufacturing chops to pull a stellar-measuring AVRs. I would think the MonoPrice 16 channels PrePro springs from the area. It is however dear at over $3500.

Yeah this is one of the main barriers. This would further decrease potential profit.

Nonetheless, I do believe stepping into AVRs. It would just have wider impact, and they already know how to make decent amplification. I'm not saying all the switching and software and connectivity is trivial, but they definitely have some solid basics

 

[dshreter]

It was touched on, but these companies are experts in sourcing and manufacturing, with competency in electronics design. They are not currently well resourced in developing software, which is a major requirement for modern HT gear. To be considered competitive, your device is expected to be controllable via a slick app, with extensive configurability of inputs and behavior.

So I’m sure they could product an 8 channel amp and 8 channel DAC, video switching and that sort of thing. But that unfortunately doesn’t make a complete product.

 

[wseroyer]

The Problem with doing a Ci-Fi AVR is they'd have to pay Dolby, DTS, and AURO to use their codec's. that would push the price higher, considering what the Denon 3700 is capable of it pretty amazing they can price it at $1299 and still have room for profit, and if you can find one on sale they'll be around $899.

 

[Massimo]

Who in their right mind would buy a Topping or SMSL HT product over one from a tried and tested brand like Marantz, Yamaha, Sony, etc?
SMSL can't even nail QC for simple little DACs. I would refer to the SU9 or M500 threads where fault resolution requires months of negotiation commencing with denial of issues and culminating in return to China for a basic firmware update which is not even registered as a different firmware version.

 

[JSmith]

Mixing audio with video never seems to work well... see almost every AVR.

Ci-Fi

Hey, no drama but just a little note to say we don't use that term here.



JSmith

 

[yllanos]

Who in their right mind would buy a Topping or SMSL HT product over one from a tried and tested brand like Marantz, Yamaha, Sony, etc?

LOL don't give people new ideas

 

[Dougey_Jones]

Who in their right mind would buy a Topping or SMSL HT product over one from a tried and tested brand like Marantz, Yamaha, Sony, etc?
SMSL can't even nail QC for simple little DACs. I would refer to the SU9 or M500 threads where fault resolution requires months of negotiation commencing with denial of issues and culminating in return to China for a basic firmware update which is not even registered as a different firmware version.

Weird, I had an SU-8v2 and currently own an SU-9/SH-9 stack and all three products have been flawless. Are they sneaky issues that I wouldn't notice?

 

[Spkrdctr]

As an older person, I have had 5.1 before (decades) and it sounded awesome. A modern 5.2.2 would be all you need for a smaller room/apt. I think adding more channels has made it much harder for the average person to put it in a room and realize the amazing benefits of surround sound. Simplify it back to 5.2.2 and I think it could be sold as a practical easier setup for the regular Joe home theater setup. Being modernized it could have the latest room correction and give it some serious Class D amp power too. Then don't price it at $1000 ($999.99 is OK though ) Heck, Yamaha could do it quite easily. Home theater audio has become far too complex and expensive for the average person. So, sound bars sell like hotcakes! People are using headphones A LOT and they are fairly inexpensive and give what I call barely decent sound. The market is screaming for simpler, easier to use equipment and the manufacturers are not listening. But, in audio, that happens a lot.

I could ramble on and on and for a moment I will. Every connection on the rear of a receiver should be HDMI even if it will not use half the capability of HDMI. The object is to standardize everything to that one standard. Someone, should come out with a new system like Bluetooth but one that passes hi-res audio and surround sound for home theater. It is easy to Bluetooth connect to something and then use it. Standardized connectors and a serious Bluetooth type standardized system to pass info from everything (PC, streamer etc.) to your receiver or tv. Ease of use is everything!
I repeat ease of use is the number one thing holding back more sales. Sound bars are VERY easy to plug and play. They just generally flat out work with little effort and they sell like crazy. Plug and play, all the way!