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How is your current speakers placement?
- Thread starter kolestonin
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Toed in, so each horn points at the coresponding ear. It doesn't seem super critical, but that gives the best illusion of depth etc.
BadSound
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Hello all,
I would like to contribute my experience to this exciting discussion.
My SCM40 sound great. For a long time I listened to them by moving the speakers from the wall into the room and put them in the isosceles triangle. Wonderful, great deepness, good center and relaxed listening. One time i did not know what I wanted to hear, so i started to put the speakers just a meter from me, That Sound was also also very impressive. Or in a very wide triangle... that gives loooooooot of space. All fine, but I never had a good location of the instruments in the stereo image. At some point I wanted to know if it was simply the speaker or something else and i read the entire internet ;-)
There was a hint in a forum that the locating ability may have to do with the distance of the speakers to the listener. So I moved in small pieces of the isosceles triangle the speakers away from me and towards me. The distance between the speakers remained the same.
At some point it was clear. Further away the image becomes narrower and puting it closer, the Image geht wider. So at some point I hit the ideal point where the image had exactly the width and depth to be able to see the instruments very well. since then the stereo image fits and I move the ATC nothing more.
Maybe this is for one or the other a tip to try it.
Greetings
I would like to contribute my experience to this exciting discussion.
My SCM40 sound great. For a long time I listened to them by moving the speakers from the wall into the room and put them in the isosceles triangle. Wonderful, great deepness, good center and relaxed listening. One time i did not know what I wanted to hear, so i started to put the speakers just a meter from me, That Sound was also also very impressive. Or in a very wide triangle... that gives loooooooot of space. All fine, but I never had a good location of the instruments in the stereo image. At some point I wanted to know if it was simply the speaker or something else and i read the entire internet ;-)
There was a hint in a forum that the locating ability may have to do with the distance of the speakers to the listener. So I moved in small pieces of the isosceles triangle the speakers away from me and towards me. The distance between the speakers remained the same.
At some point it was clear. Further away the image becomes narrower and puting it closer, the Image geht wider. So at some point I hit the ideal point where the image had exactly the width and depth to be able to see the instruments very well. since then the stereo image fits and I move the ATC nothing more.
Maybe this is for one or the other a tip to try it.
Greetings
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Audio Physic deployed as recommended: slightly wide stereo triangle, toe-in to face LP (neither side surface of speaker is visible). I tried more toe-in (crossing in front of LP) but that was too much (just a bit of side wall reflection is apparently nice with the music I like).
A bit less toe-in was also ok but mildly irritating to look at. While some posters say they like to look at the (inner) sides of their speakers when listening, I'm not attached to that personally. All that at listening distance approx 2 metres. When I move to a larger room I'll set-up, measure and listen again, maybe a bit different.
A bit less toe-in was also ok but mildly irritating to look at. While some posters say they like to look at the (inner) sides of their speakers when listening, I'm not attached to that personally. All that at listening distance approx 2 metres. When I move to a larger room I'll set-up, measure and listen again, maybe a bit different.
BadSound
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That's exactly the result of my tries
Open Mind Audio
Active Member
Goldenear Triton One's - 9.5 feet apart, 9 feet from the listening position, toed in (aimed just to the sides of the lister's head), 24 inches from back of speaker to the wall, angled forward slightly (raised an inch at the back).
This is a compromise set up in our temporary house this year. In our old house, I had more room, with the speakers 10.5 feet apart and 12.5 feet from the listening position. I didn't angle them forward in that set up. That's a better listening distance for these speakers.
The current room is symmetrical, 13' x 21', with 1) a french door to a sunroom behind the listening position, which aids overall response when open, and 2) an opening to the kitchen along the wall on the left of the listening position, which of course causes some imbalance.
This is a compromise set up in our temporary house this year. In our old house, I had more room, with the speakers 10.5 feet apart and 12.5 feet from the listening position. I didn't angle them forward in that set up. That's a better listening distance for these speakers.
The current room is symmetrical, 13' x 21', with 1) a french door to a sunroom behind the listening position, which aids overall response when open, and 2) an opening to the kitchen along the wall on the left of the listening position, which of course causes some imbalance.
Philbo King
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My room: 32 feet deep, 18 feet wide, with an L shape opening to 30 feet wide at the speaker end. 12 fiberglass absorbers 2" thick spaced 2" off the wall, 2'x4' each. 3 large sofas (used as bass traps).
Speakers:
Near field - JBL 308p mkII, 6 feet apart, against the front wall, for listening position 6 feet from the wall. Using digital EQ (APO, with a stereo IR file derived from REW measurements) to cut the bass enhancement due to wall proximity, Used for mixing, mastering, and most listening. Typically at 65-75 dBSPL
Far field - JBL Eons, circa 2006, 400W per side. 18 feet apart, listening position 20 feet from front wall. Used mostly for in-studio jams and movie watching. Typically at 75-85 dBSPL.
Both sets of speakers are toed in to point directly to listening positions.
Why talk about the room and treatment? Because it has far more effect on the sound than the speaker types or positions or toe-in.
Speakers:
Near field - JBL 308p mkII, 6 feet apart, against the front wall, for listening position 6 feet from the wall. Using digital EQ (APO, with a stereo IR file derived from REW measurements) to cut the bass enhancement due to wall proximity, Used for mixing, mastering, and most listening. Typically at 65-75 dBSPL
Far field - JBL Eons, circa 2006, 400W per side. 18 feet apart, listening position 20 feet from front wall. Used mostly for in-studio jams and movie watching. Typically at 75-85 dBSPL.
Both sets of speakers are toed in to point directly to listening positions.
Why talk about the room and treatment? Because it has far more effect on the sound than the speaker types or positions or toe-in.
posvibes
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I've always had my speakers straight out but lately have been experimenting with toed in and I am not convinced it makes such a difference for me. What I do prefer is all my speakers dragged into the room and whatever the size or style of speaker having them much closer together for instance about the width of my 50" TV, but I am unable to indulge that configuration very often for practical reasons.
I have wall mounted Genelec G5’s. I use the common triangle setup.
Yes and no. We also adjust to the room and hear loudspeaker characteristics regardless.
But to discuss the room: approx rectangular 5 by 7 metres, raked ceiling 2-3.5 metres, floor and ceiling treated, side walls can be opened, speakers close to front wall (by necessity rather than preference) with smooth RT around 200 ms above 63 Hz.
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I have my speakers very slightly toed in, a little over 1 inch of toe-in.
Speakers are DIY 2 1/2 way, with Seas W18 and Hiquphon OW-1, designed by the late Rick Craig of Selah Audio 20 years ago. Speakers were rebuilt with new cabinets and crossovers in 2018.
Room is 14' x 13' with 10 foot ceiling, and somewhat irregular in shape with large bay window on one side and a fireplace jutting into the room from the back wall. Lots of absorbing furniture, drapes, books, etc.
My speakers are set with Sumiko Master Set method, the very best way to place speakers in a room.
https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?p=979168
Speakers are DIY 2 1/2 way, with Seas W18 and Hiquphon OW-1, designed by the late Rick Craig of Selah Audio 20 years ago. Speakers were rebuilt with new cabinets and crossovers in 2018.
Room is 14' x 13' with 10 foot ceiling, and somewhat irregular in shape with large bay window on one side and a fireplace jutting into the room from the back wall. Lots of absorbing furniture, drapes, books, etc.
My speakers are set with Sumiko Master Set method, the very best way to place speakers in a room.
As I have the same speakers as you, it would be interesting to know what distance from the speakers you ended up with, and the distance between the two speakers?
Cote Dazur
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Having the same room would be more relevant, than having the same speakers in a different room.
The room will have enough impact on sound that it is irrelevant. You can try it easily by moving your speakers in an other room, they will be not sound the same, not even close, just moving them around the room will do that as well, but less drastic.
On that vain, moving where you seat is also a very important factor on what you end up hearing form those speakers.
I’m not going to change my speaker's position according to what he ended up with, I have already found out what works best for me.
I was just curious if he ended up with a similar setup as I did because it's not just about the room, it also depends on the particular speakers and what philosophy you have on speaker positioning. I like a fairly small listening triangle to maximize the ratio of direct sound vs reflective sound.
Cote Dazur
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Yes, we have that in common, trying to take the room out of the equation, emphasis on trying.
Still, even in that scenario, place that same “small listening triangle” with the same speakers in a different room, just for giggle and tell me again it is “not just about the room”.
An other fun exercise is to place tape marks on the floor where the speakers are, and switch with an other pair of speakers you have in an other room set up. They will sound different than in the other room, also different from each other, of course, but some of the characteristics of that particular speaker placement in that particular room will still be there, common to any speaker you will place on the tape marks.
Even when trying to take the room out of the equation, the impact of the room on what we ear is under evaluated by most. A few simple test from room to room is an easy way to ear it, it does not cost anything and for some (me) can even be pleasant.
Yes, I’m with you on all the things you say.
But still, I find it interesting to know what other people with the same speakers have ended up with positioning-wise, I like to see if there are some similarities with the same speakers even if they are placed in completely different rooms. As an example, I know that many people with ATC speakers have come up with the same amount of toe-in, where the speaker's axis crosses about 1 foot behind the listing position.
I agree about the importance of the room, however I have found in experiments with many speakers in many rooms that a listening triangle of 8'-10' seems to work best. I have played around with much larger and smaller triangles in large rooms and played around with positioning in more modest rooms, and if it is possible to get the speakers and listening position in this configuration without getting too close to room boundaries, this size seems to work best.
Toe in or not? I guess that depends on the speakers. Often partial or full toe in is best, but an overly bright speaker may not sound the best this way.
LightninBoy
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Toed in/out relative to the on-axis or relative to the front wall? I never fully understood which was the most commonly used reference when talking about toe angles.
Cote Dazur
Addicted to Fun and Learning
No doubt, for me, 6 to 8 is more in line with what I like.
What many do not realize is that in many cases, if the room is big enough, the sound stage expand way beyond and outside of where the speakers are located, making it that a smaller triangle may yield a bigger sound stage than a bigger triangle.
As for angling of speakers (toe in/out), my experience is that its importance is much less than all the talk it generates, a simple blind test should be enlightening for all who believe it is changing that much.
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