How do you know whether you have resolving speakers?

[MasterApex]

Recently I started to collect more speakers and amplifiers.
For many years, I have the opinion that amplifiers sounds the same (as long as they are driven too hard), DAC and cable interconnects sounds the same as long as they are decent quality.

I had compared my legacy Denon AVR 5808 Receiver vs Levinson 333 vs Benchmark AHB2 on my Martin Logan bookshelf speaker and B&W 640i Tower speakers, ; I don't hear sonic differences among the amplifiers.

However, when I use the amplifiers to drive B&W 802D3, I can hear sonic signature differences among the amplifiers. In some instances, the XLR cable interconnect can be audibly distinguishable.

As others are listening to compare amps , DACs, cables, etc...how do we know or identify whether our speakers are highly resolving?
Wondering because I was not able to hear the differences (amps, DAC, cables) with my older and bookshelf speakers.

 

[Galliardist]

This one comes up often. I don't have the grand answer, but don't confuse "resolving" with "difficult to drive".

The 802D3 has a lower impedance in the bass and other "issues". It's nominally sensitive, but hard to drive, so amplifiers will give different results depending on exactly how they fall short of driving the speaker. Unfortunately, this doesn't seem to result in the classic effect of clipping unless the amp's output is very low. Once they are out of their performance envelope, they stop sounding the same.

Don't forget gain, as well. The amp may have more power than another, but lower gain, so it doesn't put its full output into the speaker.

There are at least two amplifier comparison threads where people here have fallen into such a trap, claiming that a hard to drive speaker is "more resolving" instead.

Can you expound on the XLR cable comment? What are you comparing, different XLR cables, different amps with XLR input, or XLR to RCA?

 

[DanielT]

Do you have the ability to stream music, the same music, song, simultaneously via two different computers and you have several speakers, several amplifiers. Then opportunities open up. Then you can connect in a little different ways. Ask someone you know to tune in until that person hears no difference, then you can listen (blindly) and hear if you can hear any difference.

That way, you get around this with gain. If the person you know can tune in, that is. IF you do not succeed in this (set so you do not hear any difference) then you must investigate this with gain.

Different speakers connected in different ways speaker output A and B two different amplifiers, streaming at the same time, the same song two different amplifiers simultaneously, two pairs of speakers switch A / B,, different cables and so on. Only the imagination sets the limit.

Edit:
For example, two different amplifiers with balance control. A pair of speakers, one speaker in amp 1, the other speaker in amp 2 (same speaker in amp 1+2). Then another pair of speakers into the same amps 1+2 . Then you have speakers connected to the right and left channels on both amplifiers (but crossed, different speakers channel A and B).Turn the balance control on the amplifiers. Then you play one and the same song on a pair of speakers with different amplifiers. Ask your friend to turn up the volume until he / she hears no difference (if he / she can) then test if you can hear any difference. After that you can test various cables, connections in different ways. Exclude one gadget after another. After you do not hear any difference that is.

I'm testing myself now, Blueray player vs Spotify (same disc/record, maybe the same master), vs different DAC. So far not blind but it may be this weekend. if it is possible to tune in so I/we do not hear any difference, but then we must be at least two people who solve it. ... or if we just hang out, take it easy and drink some beer and listen to music. I'll see what happens.
(amplifier with remote control is needed, at least for me, so I can switch quickly A-B, I have short music memory)

 

[Spkrdctr]

The easiest and quickest question is this. Are you doing sighted tests? If you are, then you pretty much are winging it and what you perceive will usually be incorrect. Unless you get verification from your wife who is in the kitchen making cookies. Then her opinion is valid.

 

[DVDdoug]

You probably want speakers with flat frequency response and a quiet, treated, sound-absorbing room. Of course, a more sensitive (more efficient = louder) makes it easier to hear noise but in some cases it's the signal-to-noise ratio that's important and a more-sensitive speaker increases the signal and noise together. Similarly, an amplifier may have more gain, making noise more audible so that might be "unfair", or at least you need to know what you're listening or measuring-for.

A low-distortion speaker theoretically would make it easier to hear distortion but just about any electronics that's not broken will have lower distortion than any speaker (assuming neither is over-driven).

Audio engineers and people trying to hear "small defects" or compression artifacts, etc., usually prefer headphones. That's probably because you can turn them up loud and you're isolated from outside sounds. (Even with non-isolated headphones I think it's easier for your brain to isolate-identify outside sounds from sounds in the program.)

Amir recently posted a video by Dan Clark about measuring headphones. He commented that headphones with higher than normal distortion are often described as being "detailed". That was interesting!!! I would have thought "detailed" correlated with a high-frequency boost. And that's the problem with words like "revealing" or "analytical" or "resolving" or hundreds of other words that seem to mean something, or maybe describe an impression or feeling.

So, it's just best to avoid ALL of that audiophile-nonsense terminology and stick with frequency response, distortion, noise, or other words that have actual scientific-engineering definitions.

For many years, I have the opinion that amplifiers sounds the same (as long as they are driven too hard), DAC and cable interconnects sounds the same as long as they are decent quality.

And I'd say that's generally true, in a proper-scientific level-matched ABX test. With some amplifiers you might hear noise but there's no logical reason to have an audible difference between XLR cables unless if it's poorly shielded and picking-up noise, or something like that. (One of our members here did recently find a mis-wired XLR cable.)

I tend to be skeptical of non-blind listening tests unless the difference is something obvious like, "This amp is louder" or "This amp has more bass", or "This amp has more hiss", or "The left channel is weaker than the right". Anything that requires a "resolving speaker" or anything that can't be described with scientific-engineering language is suspect...

 

[abdo123]

I think if the excessive use of harmonic distortion in mainstream pop music made in the last 3-4 years bothers you then you have a pretty resolving system.

If your room is quiet enough to hear the 'ambiance' of the recording then that's also a pretty resolving system (this point is very underrated btw).

Every other thing in my opinion is more or less whether your reproduction of audio is accurate. and not necessary 'resolving' as in hearing something other people won't hear.

 

[Ricardus]

Resolving is definitely one of those hocus pokus words that needs to be removed from the audio listener's lexicon.

 

[Katji]

Resolving is definitely one of those hocus pokus words that needs to be removed from the audio listener's lexicon.

I want clarification of hi-definition vs. hi-res. Why is video HD and UHD but audio is "hi-res"?