How can this be considered neutral?

[PolkFan]

I always wondered how headphones that are claimed to be neutral like the 6xx and AKG K702's when they have measurably recessed sub bass? I'm no bass head but i always wondered that in the headphone world?

Am i the only one who shares these thoughts?

 

[maverickronin]

I wouldn't really agree on the 702's but for the 600/650s it's because what's there is pretty neutral.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Neutral? Dunno. All headphone listening is unnatural.

 

[Oddiofyl]

I’d prefer speakers all day long , but you can get really good sound out of a modern headphone setup. I’m recently divorced and am living in a studio. So In respect to others, I find myself putting the phones on quite a bit .

 

[PolkFan]

I’d prefer speakers all day long , but you can get really good sound out of a modern headphone setup. I’m recently divorced and am living in a studio. So In respect to others, I find myself putting the phones on quite a bit .

For sure headphones make things a lot easier. For one you don't have to worry about the room you are in as much. Plus you can easily get higher quality sound for cheaper on cans then on speakers.

I sure do miss having real speakers however in the room for sound stage. Nothing on headphones can come close to a true 5.1 system. Used to own the Polk Monitor 70's, CS2 Center, Polk monitor 40's for rears loved that setup and it cost me $600 for that alone and then $300 for a sub that was made by BIC. Budget pioneer for 300$ heck that's $1200 and probably still not as good as the 800HD's lol.

 

[Tks]

Same way someone says something sounds euphoric. Nonsensical abstraction layer where the commentator hopes people can interpolate what he himself isn't aware he is trying to say because he himself can't explain it even if pressed for explicit details.

It means as much as anyone is willing to grant it intelligible credence.

 

[thewas]

Someone can actually achieve even a very good stereo or multichannel loudspeaker emulation with headphones but it needs quite some work (measuring your own individual transfer functions from many directions in good monitoring room) and money (using something like the https://smyth-research.com/) which only very few people do.

 

[wwenze]

One problem I've observed is when some people say "neutral" they mean "It has no bass". Like for e.g. Yamaha HS5 is a neutral speaker.

"Flat", "Accurate", "Clinical" mean the same.

 

[andreasmaaan]

I always wondered how headphones that are claimed to be neutral like the 6xx and AKG K702's when they have measurably recessed sub bass? I'm no bass head but i always wondered that in the headphone world?

Am i the only one who shares these thoughts?

Most "neutral" speakers suffer from the same shortcoming.

In general, extension below 50ish Hz has never been a prerequisite for the application of this term.

 

[PolkFan]

Most "neutral" speakers suffer from the same shortcoming.

In general, extension below 50ish Hz has never been a prerequisite for the application of this term.

To me it should and i have to keep saying i'm no bass head in fact i often prefer headphones people call boring lol but i feel a neutral headphone should truly be that. Harman curve even seems like we should have increased bass
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/harman-tweaks-its-headphone-target-response

 

[thewas]

One problem I've observed is when some people say "neutral" they mean "It has no bass". Like for e.g. Yamaha HS5 is a neutral speaker.

"Flat", "Accurate", "Clinical" mean the same.

HS5 is not neutral, it has a mid peak that was on purpose implemented to resemble a bit the dreadful NS-10 and has also not really low bass:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/yamaha-hs5-powered-monitor-review.10967/

A good neutral loudspeaker doesn't sound clinical at all, good recordings are usually mixed on such loudspeakers and mixing/mastering engineers want them to sound good to sell and aren't sadists.

 

[q3cpma]

HS5 is not neutral, it has a mid peak that was on purpose implemented to resemble a bit the dreadful NS-10 and has also not really low bass:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/yamaha-hs5-powered-monitor-review.10967/

A good neutral loudspeaker doesn't sound clinical at all, good recordings are usually mixed on such loudspeakers and mixing/mastering engineers want them to sound good to sell and aren't sadists.

I doubt it is intentional, as the HS7 and HS8 are way different on that front. On that note, I'd like Yamaha to update their range, I know they can do better.

 

[thewas]

I doubt it is intentional, as the HS7 and HS8 are way different on that front. On that note, I'd like Yamaha to update their range, I know they can do better.

As you say Yamaha know what they are doing and I strongly think its intentional as its only on their 5" model HS-5 and its predecessor HS-50 but not on the HS7(0) or HS8(0).

 

[wwenze]

It's probably one of those "we expect HS5(0) to be placed in position A, which will sound the same as HS7(0) placed in position B". At least that's what I believe.

 

[Kal Rubinson]

Same way someone says something sounds euphoric. Nonsensical abstraction layer where the commentator hopes people can interpolate what he himself isn't aware he is trying to say because he himself can't explain it even if pressed for explicit details.

Did you mean euphonic? If so, I agree.

 

[Monstieur]

I always wondered how headphones that are claimed to be neutral like the 6xx and AKG K702's when they have measurably recessed sub bass? I'm no bass head but i always wondered that in the headphone world?

Am i the only one who shares these thoughts?

No - any headphone that rolls off the bass above 20 Hz is crap. They're defective-by-design garbage based on obsolete last-century technology made for audiofools.

 

[solderdude]

20Hz ?

 

[Monstieur]

20Hz ?

On the bass side.

 

[solderdude]

rolls of ABOVE 20Hz ?

You mean below 20Hz... and how many dB do you consider rolled off ? referenced to 1kHz.

 

[Monstieur]

rolls of ABOVE 20Hz ?

You mean below 20Hz... and how many dB do you consider rolled off ? referenced to 1kHz.

I think you've got it backwards - it's fine if it's rolled-off below 20 Hz.

20 Hz = 1 kHz on a raw graph is generally salvageable with EQ without much distortion.