How can bogus claims and inferior audio thrive in a competitive market?

[ahofer]

I switched from listening to lots of extracts to longer pieces when evaluating speakers and found that it helped me to work them out. I

I second that. The main thing you want to avoid is a speaker that is annoying in extended listening. You might be able to EQ it back to normal, but why bother?

 

[sfgumshoe]

I had the same problem. Lots of speakers sounded great. Several also passed my long-term listening test without fatigue. If you can’t audition them in your listening room, go with the one you like that has the best measurements, uniform dispersion in particular - I’d suggest the Revels. It’s most likely they will sound good in a variety of environments, and they can be EQ’d to taste. I have a pair of 228Be and they are fantastic. You’ve got more than enough power for a large room.

See how you like that, and if you still feel like you need the bottom octaves evened out, get a few subs and DSP.

This is very helpful— thanks.

 

[steve59]

I listened to some Dali's in the price you have allocated for speakers and they sounded excellent with the Mc352 last weekend. Like you I always had an interest in Mac components, but dealers wouldn't deal on the brand, so finally I brought home a pair of 611's many years later and a c49 to drive my blades. I know most members want to believe a $50 class d module will sound as good as anything out there, like I needed my huffy to be as good as the rich kids Schwinn back in the day, both have wheels and pedals right? If music is something you pay attention to the Mac will prove its worth.

 

[Tom C]

“ It is extremely time-consuming to learn what you need to learn to make a perfectly rational purchase. In fact it is nearly impossible. You can't listen to everything.”

It has been 50 years since I immersed myself as a teenager in the world of “hi-fi“. I have essentially ignored it since the mid 70s.

In the meantime, my skeptical instincts have been honed to a rather sharp edge.

I am now in a position to buy a first-rate audiophile grade stereo system — equipment that would’ve been beyond my wildest dreams five decades ago.

I am well aware that I am succumbing to many of the fallacies you describe in this wonderful post. For example: I’m going to buy an expensive McIntosh amplifier, probably the $9000 one (the 8950) or maybe even the $12,000 one (the 9500). (https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/integrated-amplifiers).

I’m sure that for a lot less money, I could get something that would sound just as good to my ears, but those mesmerizing blue meters sunk the hook deep into my limbic system way back during the Carter administration. And now I can afford one of those amps so by God I’m going to buy one.

I am also going to buy an EAT C-sharp turntable, (https://www.thespeakershacks.co.uk/2020/11/eat-c-sharp-turntable-review.html?m=1)

Why? Because I heard it at a friend’s place recently and it sounds fantastic, (along with about $75,000 worth of other equipment attached to it), and I think it’s pretty, and, unlike 50 years ago, now I can afford one.

And now we come to the reason for my post, and my heartfelt wish that you can advise me since you seem unusually sensible about all this. How on earth can I pick out speakers? I have narrowed the field to tower speakers in the range of $7000 to approximately $15,000.

I have listened to several: Sonus Fabers, Triangles, Revels, Audiovectors, et al.

See, e.g.,

https://www.revelspeakers.com/produ...color=Black-GLOBAL-Current&cgid=floorstanding,

Olympica Nova V Floorstanding Speaker| Sonus faber

Sonus faber's Olympica Nova V, where sound quality meets captivating design. This flagship speaker offers a rich, detailed, and immersive audio experience.

www.sonusfaber.com

At this point, I know that I could spend many hours auditioning the speakers. I’m also reasonably certain that I would think that they all sound fantastic, as indeed they have based on short term listening tests. Needless to say, there are dozens or scores of other brands that I could also listen to.

By the way, this is for a large living room that is 30’ x 15‘ with 12-foot ceilings and lots of heavy carpeting and drapes. And I listen to a wide variety of music from classical to rock ‘n’ roll to jazz to opera.

Can you advise me on how I might save myself a lot of time auditioning speakers? You might for example, advise me to simply pick ones that I like and not spend a lot of time shopping around since the differences would probably be inaudible to me.

Or, perhaps you can give me some solid technical advice, such as making sure that a given pair of speakers will match well with a 200 watt or 300-watt Mcintosh integrated amplifier.

Many thanks for your input. And anyone else who reads this post and cares to comment, I welcome your thoughts.

I certainly understand your point of view. I expect you will enjoy your system immensely.
‘The thing about the McIntosh gear is, although expensive, it’s not the most ridiculously expensive out there. And it is top performing. And holds its resale value better than anything else. And is highly reliable, and beautiful to behold. When trouble comes along, the customer support is excellent. I bought a McIntosh power amp that failed after about two weeks. Blown tube. They covered shipping, and the repair was prompt. No excuses or delays.
The EAT should be quite satisfying.
‘The speakers are where you really have to be careful. There are actually lots of excellent choices available, but they’re not necessarily obvious. Of the ones you mention, I’d probably stick to Revel, myself. You know you’re going to get a well designed product.

 

[steve59]

revel is the unanimous choice of asr forum, but hopefully folk with a budget spend some time listening with their own ears.

 

[Galliardist]

I know most members want to believe a $50 class d module will sound as good as anything out there,

… and there is evidence that some of them will, as long as the rest of the system is chosen wisely. It’s not like having a cheap bike in that regard.

It doesn’t mean that everything else on offer with more expensive brands and the physical dealership model isn’t worth paying more.

 

[Tom C]

revel is the unanimous choice of asr forum, but hopefully folk with a budget spend some time listening with their own ears.

Well, maybe not unanimous. I see lots of recommendations for Genelec. Depends on the use case. I see you went with Kef, which is also widely respected around these parts.

 

[ahofer]

The burden of proof that something more expensive sounds better, or even different, is on the person making the assertion. Strange how so few try.

 

[Galliardist]

Well, maybe not unanimous. I see lots of recommendations for Genelec. Depends on the use case. I see you went with Kef, which is also widely respected around these parts.

There’s a price limit and a requirement for a McIntosh amp here, which rules out active speakers. KEF have models in tbe price range, but without audition, the Revel models may well be a safer choice. Here, audition is taking place of course.

The Blades are in a different price bracket.

 

[sfgumshoe]

The burden of proof that something more expensive sounds better, or even different, is on the person making the assertion. Strange how so few try.

My question for today is what kind of streamer we should get. Ideally, I’d like to be able to just stream Alexa through the amp, but two different dealers have told me they are not certain if that will work.

They both recommended that I buy a streamer.

The price range on the streamers is in the low hundreds of dollars to $5000 or more. My instinct tells me that I don’t need to spend a lot of money on one of these.

First of all, there is a DAC inside both of the Mcintosh 8950 and 9500 amps, so, if it’s possible to buy a streamer without a DAC, that would be the way to go.

If I simply run an ethernet cable from a router into the back of the McIntosh amp, shouldn’t I be able to stream Alexa signals through the amp?

Any wisdom that anyone here would care to impart on this topic will be appreciated.

Samples:

Bluesound NODE (Black) https://www.crutchfield.com/p_813NODEBK/Bluesound-NODE-Black.html?tp=71429

[URL='https://www.crutchfield.com/p_813NODEBK/Bluesound-NODE-Black.html?tp=71429']crutchfield.com

[/URL]

 

[Tom C]

You need a software player. Your phone, for example, runs an app from your streaming service.
Neither the 8950 nor the 9500 has a LAN port that I can see.
You should be able to use an adapter cable from your phone to your amp, and stream that way. You would connect the wire to the port on the back of the amp labeled “USB Audio.” Otherwise, you could use a laptop, or a small desktop like Intel NUC or Mac mini, depending on your preference.
Or, you could go full-on ASR and run Daphile or piCorePlayer on a RaspberryPi or some old laptop or PC you have lying around unused. Streamers don’t need a lot of computing power.
The streamer may or may not cost more, depending on the choices available to you. And, the streamer may have a more polished look vs. the alternatives, and be easier for you and/or the family to use.

 

[Tom C]

BTW, those tone controls are a super nice touch, and represent a genuine value added.

 

[sfgumshoe]

You need a software player. Your phone, for example, runs an app from your streaming service.
Neither the 8950 nor the 9500 has a LAN port that I can see.
You should be able to use an adapter cable from your phone to your amp, and stream that way. You would connect the wire to the port on the back of the amp labeled “USB Audio.” Otherwise, you could use a laptop, or a small desktop like Intel NUC or Mac mini, depending on your preference.
Or, you could go full-on ASR and run Daphile or piCorePlayer on a RaspberryPi or some old laptop or PC you have lying around unused. Streamers don’t need a lot of computing power.
The streamer may or may not cost more, depending on the choices available to you. And, the streamer may have a more polished look vs. the alternatives, and be easier for you and/or the family to use.

Thanks for this reply. I don’t think I would want to run a wire from my phone to my amp.

I would very much like to be able to use Alexa and have its signal feed into the amp.

Maybe via Bluetooth, using something like this?

B50 Bluetooth Stereo Amplifier With Audio Transmitter

B50 Bluetooth Stereo Amplifier with transmitter is a Bluetooth amplifier with latest Bluetooth aptx HD technology and rich interfaces that could meet all your needs.

www.arylic.com

 

[Galliardist]

Thanks for this reply. I don’t think I would want to run a wire from my phone to my amp.

I would very much like to be able to use Alexa and have its signal feed into the amp.

Maybe via Bluetooth, using something like this?

B50 Bluetooth Stereo Amplifier With Audio Transmitter

B50 Bluetooth Stereo Amplifier with transmitter is a Bluetooth amplifier with latest Bluetooth aptx HD technology and rich interfaces that could meet all your needs.

www.arylic.com

You'd be best off getting a device that's aware of Alexa. What streaming service are you using? I understand devices that stream Amazon to a stereo are harder to find than some others, and I have no idea which Linux based software or products can be controlled by Alexa. The Wiim streamers are Alexa compatible so start there for a reasonably priced product?

 

[Tom C]

That particular unit is maybe not the best fit. You are already getting the amp part, so there are pieces there that you don’t need. You do need a processor of some type.
I’m a bit at a loss, because I use Apple Music and Qobuz. I’m not familiar with Alexa, and that suggests to me you’re using Amazon Music, right?

 

[Tom C]

Yes, if the Wiim supports your streaming service, that’s an excellent thought. Might be just the ticket.

 

[sfgumshoe]

Yes, if the Wiim supports your streaming service, that’s an excellent thought. Might be just the ticket.

I will check it out. Many thanks.

 

[antcollinet]

Your other option if you specifically want alexa/amazon music, is the echo link.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Echo-Link/dp/B07FR66D24

It has optical out, so can directly connect to the amp's optical input and use the amp's dac.

 

[delta76]

The burden of proof that something more expensive sounds better, or even different, is on the person making the assertion. Strange how so few try.

the keyword here is "proof". with a lot of websites, blogs and KOLs claiming it sounds better, most people will see that as a proof.
As always, common sense is not so common. and also, the number of people without basic physics understanding is quite staggering.

 

[sfgumshoe]

Your other option if you specifically want alexa/amazon music, is the echo link.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Echo-Link/dp/B07FR66D24

It has optical out, so can directly connect to the amp's optical input and use the amp's dac.

Perfect — thanks!