High Energy Density Lithium Sulphur Battery Development

[Ron Texas]

In all fairness, this topic is not as important as one might think. While improvements in large rechargable battery performance are welcome, this particular development is just one step on the way to making lithium sulfur batteries usable. It does not represent a finished technology ready to go into production. There are several other battery technologies under development. One at MIT does not use conflict minerals. So I wonder if we are going to see an endless procession of threads about the battery story of the week.

I don't see batteries as being useful for stationary storage The limited number of cycles makes them too expensive except in certain special situations where premium rates are charged during peak hours.

Finally, I see this as a dog whistle for another topic.

These discussions are not good for ASR. Since the ill fated Corvette thread I have been less active in audio discussions. I have no doubt others have been so influenced. They just haven't been active in this bunch of off topic discussions. It's not good for the atmosphere around here.

 

[NTomokawa]

I just want my phone to last a week of intensive use without recharging. Commercialisation when?

 

[Blumlein 88]

I just want my phone to last a week of intensive use without recharging. Commercialisation when?

And they used to when it was just a phone. Somewhere between 5 days and a week on the first couple I had.

 

[NTomokawa]

And they used to when it was just a phone. Somewhere between 5 days and a week on the first couple I had.

Ah yes! I remember my old Motorola phones. Dot-matrix screen, user-swappable batteries, the only games were Pong and Snake...

Still, I'm glad that I'm carrying basically a tiny computer in my pocket. Data mining, tracking and battery usage aside...

 

[scott wurcer]

These discussions are not good for ASR. Since the ill fated Corvette thread I have been less active in audio discussions.

Sorry to see this, one solution is to simply close threads immediately when any political or religious posts start. People (including me) have strong opinions about non-audio topics and restraint in voicing them is not always used.

 

[Ron Texas]

Sorry to see this, one solution is to simply close threads immediately when any political or religious posts start. People (including me) have strong opinions about non-audio topics and restraint in voicing them is not always used.

I would have thought the Corvette thread was non controversial until it was hijacked. Like you I have strong opinions about non audio topics, but this isn't the right place to turn a simple car discussion or a tribute to good people in Australia into something political. However, a few activists can't resist. They must miss the fight club.

 

[MediumRare]

The limited number of cycles makes them too expensive except in certain special situations where premium rates are charged during peak hours.

If that's the case, these guys are going to lose $620 billion.
https://about.bnef.com/blog/energy-storage-620-billion-investment-opportunity-2040/

 

[MediumRare]

Sorry to see this, one solution is to simply close threads immediately when any political or religious posts start. People (including me) have strong opinions about non-audio topics and restraint in voicing them is not always used.

We should be able to discuss science without ad hominen comments.

 

[Wes]

Batteries are already making inroads into energy storage, and will continue to take market share from hydro, pumped storage & etc.

Even the quick start gas turbine business is doing poorly - just ask GE...

 

[mhardy6647]

Thing is, unless you go overboard with the solar size and batteries for much $$$$, the power reserve backup that batteries provide is unreliable and insufficient. You can't run any serious loads from it, some lights, TV and the fridge maybe, that is if it wasn't raining that day.

... could be (infinitely) better than nothing, though.

Funny thing here is that - besides refrigerator and freezer (the Second Law of Thermodynamics being what it is -- they consume a fair, or unfair, amount of juice) - the only thing that really uses much (electrical) energy is our well pump.

We've got about 5200 watts' worth of PVs; the generator's rated, if memory serves, 5000 watts 'continuous'
(this site says 5500: https://shedheads.net/honda-eu7000is-generator-review/ )
Those quantities meet most of our needs, most of the time.

Mostly, we need (absolutely need) heat in the winter time. It gets cold here some times.

 

[mhardy6647]

Sort of on topic -- while our main heat is from a propane-fired boiler, we're slowly but surely moving, I think, towards non-fossil-fueled heating/cooling. About 18 months ago, we decided to "beta test" a high-efficiency heat pump (split system) to see how it worked and if we liked it.

You see, we didn't air condition this house (located in northern New England) when we built it -- but, between climate change and our deliberate south-facing exposure on the back of the house (the house was sited to be able to put PVs on the back roof), it gets pretty warm in the midst of summer during the day!

DSC_1842 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

So far, I am thrilled with the heat pump for both heat and A/C and we're considering moving to heat pumps for most of our heating (and cooling).

DSC_1840 (2) by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

We're not crazy greenies, but I figure that every mole of CO2 that we don't produce when we're heating - or cooling - the house is one less mole of CO2 for the world to deal with.

 

[Ron Texas]

If that's the case, these guys are going to lose $620 billion.
https://about.bnef.com/blog/energy-storage-620-billion-investment-opportunity-2040/

They have to find a way to go from 400 cycles (nearly full discharge) to much more. Utility scale involves much faster discharge than cars. Nobody is about to lose $620 billion, but they may make as much as they hoped for or it may take a lot longer. Energy storage has always had value due to the problem of peak loads being so much more than base loads.

One relatively low tech solution for warm climates is making ice off peak and using it to run air conditioning during the day. Obviously, the ice makers are agnostic as to where the electricity comes from.

 

[JeffS7444]

I’m all for better ways to generate and store electricity, but if a person really wants to live a more sustainable life, consuming less “stuff” overall is key, and sometimes, rather than “Shopping for change”, it might be better to simply shop less.

 

[RayDunzl]

Ban anything you don't like.

That's the spirit!

That's what I do.

On a personal level.

Around here, it's "text on a screen", so no harm to my blood pressure.

 

[Blumlein 88]

I’m all for better ways to generate and store electricity, but if a person really wants to live a more sustainable life, consuming less “stuff” overall is key, and sometimes, rather than “Shopping for change”, it might be better to simply shop less.

A friend of mine built a 320 square foot house 2 years ago. Modern energy efficient construction. Small bedroom, bathroom, kitchen and the only other room for looking out on the porch. His utility costs are like totals of $20 at most including heating and cooling. He does have air conditioning and heat pump. He could easily do this all on solar if he wished. Just all electric for now. Plus he has no mortgage as it didn't cost much to build.

He is a person who spends most of his time outdoors weather permitting. This let him live inexpensively. Two can live in it just fine.

His choice though, no one making him do it. Many could make the same choice, but don't.

 

[MediumRare]

They have to find a way to go from 400 cycles (nearly full discharge) to much more. Utility scale involves much faster discharge than cars. Nobody is about to lose $620 billion, but they may make as much as they hoped for or it may take a lot longer. Energy storage has always had value due to the problem of peak loads being so much more than base loads.

One relatively low tech solution for warm climates is making ice off peak and using it to run air conditioning during the day. Obviously, the ice makers are agnostic as to where the electricity comes from.

Yes; liquid air is another technology. Lots of options for grid-scale storage.

 

[Sal1950]

He is a person who spends most of his time outdoors weather permitting. This let him live inexpensively. Two can live in it just fine.

Humm, try it sometime. You can't "have" anything, theres just no place to keep it. My place is 800 sq and it's very difficult in this size. I hope he lives in a very moderate climate and can spend a lot of time outdoors. Under other circumstances we call that a jail cell and put folks in it for punishment. LOL.
If you want to be very Eco, find a good sight to build an unground "hill house" with only a southern exposure. You can then build as large as desired and have near the same utiliy savings. They were quite popular at one time but I don't hear anything about them now. Maybe I just don't read the right stuff.

 

[Wes]

BMW just announced they are discontinuing V12's the quad turbo I6 diesel and 3 cylinder 1.5 L diesel. They also indicated they would be manufacturing diesel engines for at least 20 years and petrol for 30 years. The world is changing, but not as fast as some would like. Improved battery technology is nice, but electricity has to come from somewhere and there are limits to how much solar and wind can be used.

The limits on PV solar exceed world energy use.

Don't expect pure IC engines to go away entirely - they offer sounds & feel in sports cars that cannot be duplicated, not to mention wt. advantages. But their share of the world fleet will greatly decline as hybrids and EVs grow.

 

[MediumRare]

The limits on PV solar exceed world energy use.

Don't expect pure IC engines to go away entirely - they offer sounds & feel in sports cars that cannot be duplicated, not to mention wt. advantages. But their share of the world fleet will greatly decline as hybrids and EVs grow.

PV Solar is now as cheap or cheaper than fossil fuels; wind is even cheaper. Grid storage is now cheaper than peaker plants in Europe and cost is coming down as scale goes up. https://about.bnef.com/blog/scale-up-of-solar-and-wind-puts-existing-coal-gas-at-risk/

There will be ICE in the future the way there are horses now: As a hobby and an anachronism. Who would want a sports car that takes twice as long 0 to 60, has higher maintenance costs, and handles worse (weight distribution) and costs more? Plus fuel will be harder to find. In fact, gas stations will probably disappear from cities as everyone charges at home or work. Surely this will take 10 years to reach an inflection point, but after that the change will come very fast. I would certainly not buy a new ICE car today. The only missing element is the weight of the batteries and that change is coming soon. Could be September 22: https://www.cnbc.com/2020/06/30/tes...ow-cost-next-gen-ev-million-mile-battery.html

 

[mhardy6647]

Don't expect pure IC engines to go away entirely - they offer sounds & feel in sports cars that cannot be duplicated, not to mention wt. advantages. But their share of the world fleet will greatly decline as hybrids and EVs grow.

I/C engines are the single-ended direct-heated triode amplifiers of transportation.
(inferior in every way -- but they've got soul)