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HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

Rate this headphone:

  • 1. Poor (headless panther)

    Votes: 215 62.1%
  • 2. Not terrible (postman panther)

    Votes: 61 17.6%
  • 3. Fine (happy panther)

    Votes: 32 9.2%
  • 4. Great (golfing panther)

    Votes: 38 11.0%

  • Total voters
    346

Chagall

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The HD800S is wide sounding, not 3D like, not really spacious, it doesn't have much soundstage depth imo

I mean, OK. But distortion won't make it more spacious. IMO it has to do with FR, cup size, angle, and most importantly recording.

Sonarworks has a virtual monitoring feature that kind of fools my brain into thinking the sound is coming from far away in front. Think it's a combination of EQ and crossfeed. Sounds cool, but wears off quickly because it's not that realistic.
 

majingotan

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These "distortions" does it really mean "error" or does it maybe means something else? maybe these distortions/resonances are exact measurements what the Susvara is actually designed to sound like and done deliberately? Like for example the susvara is known to sound spacious, 3d like, some call it diffused. Some people like that other's don't

Distortions does not translate to the 3D staging and depth. DCA Expanse and Steath are what I call master of pin-point imaging, depth and 3D staging as they should for 4K USD asking price but they don't sound airy or fleshed-out as the Susvara (the ear-cup reflections and distortions/resonances create this error that sounds pleasing to some but not to others). I believe Zach has the Atrium dampening system in the Caldera which serves as in between DCA's approach (as closest to anechoic chamber) and Hifiman's approach (fully open, zero dampening) and Raal SR1A to the extreme (open baffle) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...requisite-sr1a-ribbon-headphone-review.16355/
 
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amirm

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Seems more like using these criteria to diminish the Susvara mostly diminishes the criteria
It is not "the" criteria. It is multiple and easily extended into listening tests, creating static. Are you telling me my criteria for a headphone to play clean for as loud as I want when countless competitors do that with ease, is faulty???
 
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fredristair

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In that case I think a lot of people that have spent a lot of time with Susvara are confused about this complaint. Admittedly I only listen with peaks of 85 decibels.
 

Robbo99999

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Yeah it's mind boggling how negatively people react to measurements. Why let it bother you that something you like the sound of doesn't measure well? Or why is it wrong for a reviewer to not recommend a product that measures poorly in some areas and costs manyl times what it should? Being seriously flawed AND overpriced exempts a product from criticism?
I agree with all that, but if I had a product that didn't measure well I would sure as hell quickly grab a headphone that did measure well to compare against - because our brains really can adapt to some funky frequency responses, but that doesn't mean you can't get better sound when you start comparing headphones in the same listening session - yes you can indeed get better sound, but is important to be able to compare in same listening session...brain adaption doesn't mean you're optimised for musical enjoyment.
 
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amirm

amirm

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In that case I think a lot of people that have spent a lot of time with Susvara are confused about this complaint. Admittedly I only listen with peaks of 85 decibels.
My job is to properly test a headphone and not baby it. It is not like I connected a 10,000 gigawatt amplifier to it and complained. I used my everyday headphone amp and it created static when my everyday headphone does not remotely do that. Nor have countless other headphones I have tested. But sure, as I noted in the review, if you listen at lower levels, you don't hear it. Ergo, this headphone is not for those of us who get enjoyment by cranking up the volume once in a while and listen to content that shows it off more.
 
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amirm

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In that case I think a lot of people that have spent a lot of time with Susvara are confused about this complaint. Admittedly I only listen with peaks of 85 decibels.
Adding on, this headphone clearly lacks bass response that majority of listeners prefer in controlled studies. I fall in that category. So best not be surprised that I complain about that response error. This is another "criteria."
 
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amirm

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Someone said that people who can afford such headphones don't care about measurements. Clearly the owner does. And so do I. Both of us can afford expensive gear but want performant ones.
 

Sebby

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When I had a chance to try it out, I realized that I liked the tone of the HE400se better.
If I were to upgrade, I would go with the HE1000se and I think they are the best Hifiman headphones.What stops me is the cost difference between HE1000 and HE400 to have, perhaps, 10% performance.
If they cost €500/700 I wouldn't even think about it for a second and they would already be on my desk.
 

Robbo99999

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I find it ridiculous when people complain about someone judging a product which they have not heard solely on the basis of measurements. How many people will ever have the opportunity to hear a Susvara. I am an audiophile of nearly 50 years, own two flagship headphones, a Smythe A16 Realizer and live in Music City (Nashville) and I have no clue on where I could go locally to audition them. And based on their measurements and their price, why would I bother?

I think it's entirely fair to judge the Susvaras on the basis of their measured distortions and their price. Headphones are the one venue that allows anyone to play music just as loud as they want: Doesn't require a 3000 watt amplifier or a $50k set of speakers with 18 inch subwoofers, or a house in the middle of nowhere. Just get a reasonably efficient, low distortion pair of phones, a decent high powered headphone amp, and a room where you can be alone, and you can crank it to your heart's content. But not if they're Susvaras which is inexcusable. And for all those who contend that they're not about to play them at 114db ever please remember that if you play them loud, the peaks will approach 114 db, and they will be distorted, audibly, in the very range where the ear is most sensitive to distortion. It was probably that distortion Amir heard when he talked about a "static" crunch while not playing it all that loudly. He called it a deal breaker, and I don't see how anyone can disagree.

Moreover, they apparently have faults that can't be EQ'd away. Cup reflections are a huge issue. For some apparently that creates a "diffuse, ethereal" presentation that makes for a unique sonic signature befitting an edge of the art headphone." Whatever.

So is it fair to jump all over an offering just because it commands an ultra premium price, but doesn't deliver edge of the art, impeccable measurement? Of course. I can remember reading an early issue of The Audio Critic in the late 1970's where Peter Aczel did a survey of high end preamps. In it, the most expensive one retailed for $1800. It was roughly 3x as expensive as the next most expensive, and Aczel tore it to shreds because it didn;t do things like have an accurate RIAA curve or a moving coil step up device, and he just went nuts about that. So taking a manufacturer to task when they ask a big price without matching performance is a time honored method of doing audio criticism, and no one should have an issue with it. It's called consumerism, and places like TAS could learn a thing or two from Peter Aczel.

Poor value is unforgivable with a top of the line product. No one was doing this kind of criticism of the Dan Clark Stealth or Expanse because they cleared the hurdles of offering first rate measured performance for their asking price, and no one would be doing this with Susvaras either if they measured even half so well.
Yep, agree with all of that although not so certain that the 114dB distortion line is applicable, but certainly agree with all your other points. I mean for me personally, last time I measured my headphones on my miniDSP Ears rig at my normal loudest listening levels it was only 86dB for 1khz during a 0dBFS sine sweep, so if you add 10dB to that to account for an enthusiastic bass EQ in some headphones then I'm only at the equivalent 96dB in the bass region for the distortion measurements and likewise only 86dB at 1khz for the distortion measurements, and even less in the real world considering music is not recorded at full sine wave for all frequencies.
 

Ein

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I must confess: many times, many different setups (high power & lot of cash), many trials and… one accurate world about this cans: BORING. Imo the best short answer how they repro music. Maybe for someone (specific taste), maybe for extremely rare good match equipment but - once again BORING as hell.
 

Robbo99999

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I love ASR.

I love my Susvara
It doesn't have to be mutually exclusive, but might take some effort! On a practical level I can imagine them being OK with the right EQ, but that doesn't make them great, and certainly not with a $6k price tag. It would mean trying very hard!
 

Robbo99999

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I am not sure the “fine grass” in the higher frequencies is relevant, see Amir’s tutorial
“Understanding Audio Frequency Response & Psychoacoustics (Video)”

It's a hard one to judge conclusively, it's my impressions and experience though. I think it's pretty clear that the more exotic deviations you see then the worse it's likely to be.
 

Rhamnetin

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When I had a chance to try it out, I realized that I liked the tone of the HE400se better.
If I were to upgrade, I would go with the HE1000se and I think they are the best Hifiman headphones.What stops me is the cost difference between HE1000 and HE400 to have, perhaps, 10% performance.
If they cost €500/700 I wouldn't even think about it for a second and they would already be on my desk.

I believe the HE1000s and Susvara have similar tuning, but I don't know if the HE1000se has overall similar flaws. The HE-6 seems like the most neutral headphone they've ever produced by quite a big margin.
 

Sebby

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I love ASR.

I love my Susvara
The measurements can reveal important defects/strengths but they say 60% of a headphone. There are things that measure excellent, that I later eagerly purchase, only to find out are rubbish to me (cough: Zero Red).
Measurements are really important and indisputable only with DACs and Amplifiers.
For everything else, if you like what you purchased, enjoy it to the fullest.
 

gilency

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I ran a poll on this very topic. While the poll is not scientific, but it does give you a gleam. Based on this poll, this population is small and most who uses headphones, appears to use it begrudgingly and would prefer speakers if given the choice. Which leads me rather surprise that $6k headphone is even a thing with them and with 6 pages of comment nevertheless!

Perhaps those who begrudgingly uses headphones have no near term sight of speaker usage and so they just went ahead and drop $6k on a headphone. Or are so serious about this hobby even when they are forced to listen to headphones, it has to be the best. Either or, I hold no opinion (good nor bad) but just expressing my perpetual lack of understanding on $6k headphones.

You do not have to like or understand what somebody else does or likes. Fact of life.
 

majingotan

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I believe the HE1000s and Susvara have similar tuning, but I don't know if the HE1000se has overall similar flaws. The HE-6 seems like the most neutral headphone they've ever produced by quite a big margin.

HE1000se is similar to Arya Organic, but with closer to Susvara's detail retrieval. To me, HE1000se is brighter than Susvara and is almost the same as Arya Organic and as such without EQ, both headphones will cause listening fatigue at high levels while the Susvara is perfectly fine at bar club level of listening. Even the HE-6 4 screw edition sounds fatiguing to me after demoing it recently.
 

Sebby

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I believe the HE1000s and Susvara have similar tuning, but I don't know if the HE1000se has overall similar flaws. The HE-6 seems like the most neutral headphone they've ever produced by quite a big margin.
I partially agree. If we look at price/performance they are probably the best HIFIMAN choice.
My problem with the HE6 is the construction and headband of the latest version, which is why I would go for the HE1000 without thinking about it. In tone they may seem similar (Susvara/HE1000) but for me HE1000 is better to my ears, that's all.
My biggest problem with Susvara is that no headphone should cost €6000.
 
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