HIFIMAN Susvara Headphone Review

[solderdude]

Thanks, I was recently considering the stealth version of this if I could find it in the $2-2.5k range somewhere, but once the DCA E3 came out I just went with that and I'm glad I did. What a breath of fresh air the E3 is.

The R10 is just an 'ode' to the original and legendary Sony which also measured horrible but many people seemed to like the flaws. It sold for crazy money.
Not worth the money and not in Susvara league either. It is all about the cups in the R10 hitchhiking on the fame of the Sony.

The E3 (not heard nor measured it) is more about the sound, the R10 is about the looks.

 

[Endibol]

Ha, I do appreciate the humour though (no sarcasm on my part).

The "fine grass" is showing very abrupt seesawing of the frequency response ranging in the region of 2-3dB, I can imagine this changing the sound perception of things like instruments and voices that sit across that frequency range - you'd think it could almost be like putting them through a fine-grained filter where parts are regularly omitted (a bit like the audio equivalent of looking at the world through a screen mesh). In terms of real world observations, I own a Hifiman HE4XX which also exhibits a lot of these "fine grass" deviations, I measured it on my miniDSP EARS rig and it stands out as having this characteristic in contrast to all my other headphones I've measured on it (which are dynamic driver headphones that don't have this "fine grass" deviation), and even though I can get the tonality of the HE4XX spot on when using an Oratory EQ it's when I compare it in the same listening session to some of my EQ'd dynamic driver headphones (that have smooth frequency response) then I can resolve more detail in the dynamic driver headphones - so eventhough tonality is spot on with EQ'd HE4XX it lacks something in it's resolution which I put down to it's unique "fine grass" measurements vs my other headphones.

EDIT: following is my HE4XX measured on my miniDSP EARS rig to show the "fine grass" deviations I've been talking about (even this HE4XX has less "fine grass" than the Susvara). Note that the overall shape of the frequency response will look strange as it's measured on miniDSP EARS rig and not on the same GRAS rig that Amir & others use, so ignore the strangeness of the overall shape.
View attachment 336792
EDIT #2: and a smooth dynamic driver headphone K702 measured showing no "fine grass":
View attachment 336799

I am not sure the “fine grass” in the higher frequencies is relevant, see Amir’s tutorial
“Understanding Audio Frequency Response & Psychoacoustics (Video)”

Understanding Audio Frequency Response & Psychoacoustics (Video)

For some of you this is old news but for many, I thought it would be good to do a tutorial on frequency response. No, not the trivial aspects of it but digging into psychoacoustics so that you can properly analyze headphone, speaker and room measurements and determine audibility of deviations...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[Chagall]

I find it ridiculous when people complain about someone judging a product which they have not heard solely on the basis of measurements. How many people will ever have the opportunity to hear a Susvara. I am an audiophile of nearly 50 years, own two flagship headphones, a Smythe A16 Realizer and live in Music City (Nashville) and I have no clue on where I could go locally to audition them. And based on their measurements and their price, why would I bother?

Because you can't judge headphones solely based on measurements - this isn't some hot take!

Watch the video @amirm linked.

Also Amir's note:
Note: The measurements you are about to see are made using a standardized Gras 45C. Headphone measurements by definition are approximate and variable so don't be surprised if other measurements even if performed with the same fixtures as mine, differ in end results. Protocols vary such as headband pressure and averaging (which I don't do). As you will see, I confirm the approximate accuracy of the measurements using Equalization and listening tests. Ultimately headphone measurements are less exact than speakers mostly in bass and above a few kilohertz so keep that in mind as you read these tests. If you think you have an exact idea of a headphone performance, you are likely wrong!

Also Amir's post.

Also headphone performance on your actual head vs performance on the fixture.

But let's pile on I guess.

Poor value is unforgivable with a top of the line product. No one was doing this kind of criticism of the Dan Clark Stealth or Expanse because they cleared the hurdles of offering first rate measured performance for their asking price, and no one would be doing this with Susvaras either if they measured even half so well.

I agree that DCA has done a better job than most and should be applauded.

 

[solderdude]

It has a tube amp, that is for sure. But does it really has audible distortion?

Nope, indeed the distortion is very low, the tubes are for the HV signal amplification and of course audiophiles love tubes so it had to have it just like the original.
Especially true when they are in little glass tubes that come up slowly when switched on from the marble base.
It does have EQ to compensate for the FR response of the actual headphone and is why it measures great and has Harman type of bass.

 

[usern]

Group delay as well as earcup to earlobe reflections and HRTF are the main cause of what I and others who have heard this headphone as "ethereal", "spatial", "reverb-ery", "3D" or in other words "wide, fast, open and airy" subjective lingo.

"fast" is such trolling lingo. How can "reverb-ery" be fast? Reverb stretches input signal into longer, "slower" signal.

 

[MacClintock]

Has anybody made the inverse test, EQing to the FR of the Susvara to check if the supposed "airy" sound is reproducible purely through FR?

 

[majingotan]

"fast" is such trolling lingo. How can "reverb-ery" be fast? Reverb stretches input signal into longer, "slower" signal.

Group delay is the answer. Stax SR-X9000 can be reverb-ery and fast at the same time. Sennheiser HE-1 also does this as well.

 

[usern]

What is fast? What timestamp do I look for a certain song and how should it sound?

 

[solderdude]

but.... there is no group delay above 200Hz (it will stay around 0ms)

 

[zach915m]

ZMF Caldera though OTOH is wonky in the presence region to my ears

Please note when making finite statements continuously that you haven't heard the ultra perf pads, and EQ'd to Harman per my suggestion before.

 

[Endibol]

Having been to an audio show and listened to countless summit level headphones and walking away with only the Susvara dropping my jaw, all I can say is you should at the very least give these a proper listen before you discount them for something with a nicer graph.

The graphs absolutely still have merit though. For example comparing this review with the low-distortion Caldera, I felt the Caldera was more clear and fast than the Susvara and the Susvara having a slightly funky highs which I think can be shown here comparing the two headphone reviews. However with that said, I traded the Calderas for the Susvara because despite the Caldera measuring better, I much preferred the ethereal tonality of the Susvara that just feels so airy allowing me to listen for hours, while having just enough bass and texture to satisfy, the forward mids and vocals that just blew me away, and the phenomena where the sound feels so spacious as if it's coming from nowhere.

Anyway, this review for me is proof that the current measurements are flawed, or atleast missing certain dimensions because if you're measuring the Susvara and not coming away with certain metrics blowing away a $20 IEM, then something is obviously wrong :'D, because - yes my ears tell me these sound more amazing then anything I've listened to before and I'll defend that hill.

Couldn’t it be that you just have a special personal preference for the objectively non-neutral Susvara sound signature? That you like to see the world through pink sun glasses instead through glasses filtering all colors equally?

 

[majingotan]

Please note when making finite statements continuously that you haven't heard the ultra perf pads, and EQ'd to Harman per my suggestion before.

Noted. Will definitely request that from you when I visit one of those upcoming Canjams next year

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Because you can't judge headphones solely based on measurements - this isn't some hot take!

Watch the video @amirm linked.

Also Amir's note:
Note: The measurements you are about to see are made using a standardized Gras 45C. Headphone measurements by definition are approximate and variable so don't be surprised if other measurements even if performed with the same fixtures as mine, differ in end results. Protocols vary such as headband pressure and averaging (which I don't do). As you will see, I confirm the approximate accuracy of the measurements using Equalization and listening tests. Ultimately headphone measurements are less exact than speakers mostly in bass and above a few kilohertz so keep that in mind as you read these tests. If you think you have an exact idea of a headphone performance, you are likely wrong!

Also Amir's post.

Also headphone performance on your actual head vs performance on the fixture.

But let's pile

Because you can't judge headphones solely based on measurements - this isn't some hot take!

Watch the video @amirm linked.

Also Amir's note:
Note: The measurements you are about to see are made using a standardized Gras 45C. Headphone measurements by definition are approximate and variable so don't be surprised if other measurements even if performed with the same fixtures as mine, differ in end results. Protocols vary such as headband pressure and averaging (which I don't do). As you will see, I confirm the approximate accuracy of the measurements using Equalization and listening tests. Ultimately headphone measurements are less exact than speakers mostly in bass and above a few kilohertz so keep that in mind as you read these tests. If you think you have an exact idea of a headphone performance, you are likely wrong!

Also Amir's post.

Also headphone performance on your actual head vs performance on the fixture.

But let's pile on I guess.



I agree that DCA has done a better job than most and should be applauded.

It's not a "hot take". This isn't just about the FR. It's about the fact it distorts in the most sensitive region, a fact confirmed BOTH by measurement and a live audition. It's about the fact that it can't be EQ'd, so you're stuck with the signature at all times for everything, which is inexcusable in a headphone these days. And it's about the price and the mediocre quality which are two things HiFiMan is notorious for. And it's not "piling on". I've seen $20 k speakers praised to the skies on this forum, as well as $20 IEMs. Every component has to earn it's place with BOTH measured performance and subjective listening, irrespective of price. I can think of nothing more fair than that.

To put out a headphone $2k more expensive than most everyone's else's flagships, and not have it perform objectively better than your own $200 entry level model deserves to be called out, don't you think?

 

[Chagall]

Every component has to earn it's place with BOTH measured performance and subjective listening, irrespective of price. I can think of nothing more fair than that.

That's all I asked for and couldn't agree more.

 

[jody2k]

These "distortions" does it really mean "error" or does it maybe means something else? maybe these distortions/resonances are exact measurements what the Susvara is actually designed to sound like and done deliberately? Like for example the susvara is known to sound spacious, 3d like, some call it diffused. Some people like that other's don't

 

[Tachyon88]

I love how the user sent in the ahb2 as well. You'd never hear the end of it from the shopping addicted amp rolling crowd that it was "underpowered". My first hifiman was the arya v2 and I really like that HP which made me want to try the susvara and after several months I decided the arya was close enough and sold the susvara. I also like the Arya larger sound stage. I eq'd both to Harman using oratory1990 settings and also used an A90 and always thought the amp issue was immensely overblown. You would ALWAYS get this general idea about powering the susvara - "Its not if it has enough power or can get loud enough its about the quality of that power to drive the HP"....lol. I remember reading people buying the amps that "open up the bass" and blah blah blah only for them to be disappointed thinking it would transform their susvara into an underpowered limp headphone into a monster. When in reality they had enough power and were simply listening to how it sounded, but being disappointed because of the immense expectations people give it.

 

[gilency]

This is quite a shock! Could Amir review the HE1000 Stealth sometime? I have been so tempted to buy one based on all the non sense I keep reading.

 

[Chagall]

These "distortions" does it really mean "error"

Yes, it does.

Sennheiser HD800s is also spacious sounding and doesn't distort at 1-5kHz (@104dB).

Edit: Arya also.

 

[jody2k]

Yes, it does.

Sennheiser HD800s is also spacious sounding and doesn't distort at 1-5kHz (@104dB).

Edit: Arya also.

The HD800S is wide sounding, not 3D like, not really spacious, it doesn't have much soundstage depth imo

 

[amirm]

@amirm Did you do any subjective listening tests between the two amps?

No. I only listened to Topping A90.