Hifiman Sundara Review (headphone)

[KiyPhi]

I don't understand why you get ecstatic about those? I mean they ain't that bad but far from great either, for planars especially. Not negligible distortion at 104 dB, lo to sub bass roll of, drop in vocals & bit erratic behaviour in highs. In my book that's two minuses (bass & highs) and little (for bass thanks to distortion) to no hope (highs) in correcting them. Plenty of Fostex models sounding similarly and for less money.
Would really love to hear Amir describe subjectively what he liked so much about them regarding string instruments as that's something planars don't usually do great.

Which headphones are the ones you are referring to that ain't that bad but far from great? You didn't quote anyone so it is harder to follow.

 

[thewas]

oratory1990's measurement looks generally similar, at a 'high level' view

View attachment 124268

You posted the ones of the older pad version, the current one measures better and closer to the ASR measurement:

Source: https://www.dropbox.com/s/j8r9im6d3s5zglk/Hifiman Sundara (revised earpads, preliminary).pdf?dl=0

 

[ergre]

Yes, it is! You can transform any cheap & bad headphone into audiophile quality by using EQ.

Yes that seems to be true. I bought Sundaras last month. I must say I happy with them. But because of this forum I also discovered equalising headphones. My previous headphones are Philips shp9500. When I use the equalisation from the autoeq website they improve a lot. They really go from meh to wow. It makes me doubt if I really needed to buy new headphones.
Equalising the Sundaras has a less dramatic effect for me. I am still trying it out. The equalisation from this review for example has to much bass for me.

 

[B4ICU]

Did any HP tested so far, passed the test and was good enough to recommend (without EQ) ?

 

[Jukebox]

Great review Amir! Have them for almost one year now together with the AKG K 371 and Chord Mojo for my desktop setup and I nlove the sound and built quality for the money!
Didn't expected the Golfing Panther but with EQ in Roon don't think you can get better.

 

[paolomo]

Did any HP tested so far, passed the test and was good enough to recommend (without EQ) ?

Recently: K371, Aeon RT, HE-6, HD650 and a few more. Have a look at the Review Index:
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?pages/HeadphoneReview/

 

[PeteL]

Nothing! He did drive them as it is at 114 dB.

I would say, probably nothing, he drove them to 114 dB with much distortion. I think you may be right, but not because of that figure alone, driving them to 114 dB SPL don't in itself tell us if the amp is not struggling to supply current, if there is peak limiting, if the response in the bass stay linear. Your conclusion may be right tough, ADI-2 is relatively powerful, but your premiss is wrong, loud enough don't mean enough power.

 

[seyl3r]

Great review, thanks!

Is there any information on which version has been tested? The latest revision got more bass than the old ones, right?

 

[FrantzM]

Yes, it is! You can transform any cheap & bad headphone into audiophile quality by using EQ.

Not quite but ... I generally agree ... I would edit : "You can transform some cheap headphones into audiophile audiophile quality by using EQ"

It is getting exceedingly difficult to justify $1500 for any headphones.

 

[Jimbob54]

Amir,
I would be curious to know how the sound quality of the Sundara compares with the one of the DC Aeon RT you mentioned to be your day to day headphone?

Open vs closed though. Albeit a difference I think is sometimes highlighted more than it needs to be post EQ

 

[_thelaughingman]

Yes, it is! You can transform any cheap & bad headphone into audiophile quality by using EQ.

Somewhat true. I think there is always going to be a luxury market in any consumer product, as long as high quality and expensive materials are used in the product. There's also the cost of experience and good craftsmanship.

 

[Severian]

When I had the opportunity to listen to them back to back for a while, I far preferred the Sundaras to the Anandas.

 

[HonestSonics]

Interesting to see that you are able to eek out some sub-bass performance with EQ. I quickly sold a pair of Sennheiser HD599's, bought some DT770s and kind of wrote off open back headphones because the low frequencies were so lacking (and in those headphones in particular, compensated for with a huge bump in upper bass). Will accept a slightly reduced soundstage for a fuller frequency response. Perhaps there is hope if you have the right software to coax it out.

 

[_thelaughingman]

Interesting to see that you are able to eek out some sub-bass performance with EQ. I quickly sold a pair of Sennheiser HD599's, bought some DT770s and kind of wrote off open back headphones because the low frequencies were so lacking (and in those headphones in particular, compensated for with a huge bump in upper bass). Will accept a slightly reduced soundstage for a fuller frequency response. Perhaps there is hope if you have the right software to coax it out.

I think software has quickly caught up on bringing out the performance with EQ on most of these headphones that lack sub bass. I personally found my HD555, Grado SR80 and even my Hifiman HE4xx deliver superb frequency response after using parametric EQ via Sound Source. Definitely best of times right now for all the performance that is being delivered across price points and different product ranges.

 

[Fernando]

It is clear the benefits and possibilities offered by the EQ to upgrade a headphone.
But what can really differentiate one headphone from another is its scene and soundstage.
Every minute that passes the review of Hifiman Arya or its cheap competitors Akg K702 becomes more necessary, and compare them to the HD800s.

@amirm takes note!

The qudelix 5k change my live!

 

[ZolaIII]

@PeteL you must be joking, take a look at ADI-2 measurements, harder you push it there is less distortion.
@KiyPhi what other than ones mesured for which this is forum thread.

 

[Hifihedgehog]

I have been looking into headphones again and the Sundara might just be the ticket. The search began because my IEMs had been giving a mild case of tinnitus due to, oddly enough, the earplug pressure, not playback volume which has been safely around 50dB-70dB. Back when Tyll had first reviewed them, earlier revisions of the Sundara were plagued with quality control woes that left me reticent to committing to purchase. Fast forward to today, I just ordered a pair with one-day shipping so here's hoping these are groovy and good!

 

[PeteL]

@PeteL you must be joking, take a look at ADI-2 measurements, harder you push it there is less distortion.

I am not sure I understand your point, It's characteristic of any amp, the THD+N will decrease, until it reach clipping, but what does it have to do with my comment? There is no notion of SPL in amp measurments, again, I believe that ADI-2 have enough power to still be in the linear behaviour zone when pushing this headphone at 114 dB, a bit of calculation could probably confirm that as well with the Data we have. I did not say it didn't have enough. All I am saying is that "It already push it to 114 dB is NOT a proof that the amp as enough power. No I am not joking.

 

[LeoL]

May be it's my head's shape or some other effect, changing to dekoni pads changed how sundara sound with noticeable increase in bass and reduction in brightness.
Given how popular this headphone is, If there was a dekoni pad around suitable for he series, it would be interesting to see comparable data with hifiman pali pad vs dekoni on sundara
Many thanks

Hey there, mind if I ask which Dekoni pads did you change to? Thanks

 

[Helicopter]

Thanks Amir. It is always nice to see another excellent product reviewed, especially at this price.