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hi res music equipment

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i read in here somewhere that someone had blind listening to different dacs and they all sounded the same.
i desire to listen to hi res music from the net.
internet is 25 m speed connected to a samsung newer 8 k tv via cat 6 cable.
out of tv optical to my denon 2007 avr 2807 receiver opt 1.
speaker paradigm audio ref 60 v4 .
very new to net music , my stereo was used little in 2007 with a 1989 cd player and then stored to now.
so my tv has apps and when i listen to say from Spotify free tier vs Apple music, I cannot hear any differences?

I assume if i had a sacd player and a mp3 player plugged into receiver and listen to same tracks I would or should hear a big difference?
The Denon has 24/192 processing.
I have no clue about different ways and equipment to listen to. I just want to hear hi fi music, lost and confused with techno babble.
Apple music is to be at min cd quality where spotify free is very poor quality in comparison yet I do not hear anything only Spotify is a little louder.
one would think from the equipment I have I should hear differences?
I know the denon is not a dedicated power amp and a separate preamp may be better, but i should hear a difference in what I have, and then and if i want more quality at diminishing returns to move up.
Please send the Search and Rescue
 
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years ago, I was able to discern different phono cartridges, so it is not my ears
 
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voodooless

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ok, explain, ? Again, Baby Steps
It’s really simple: your hearing will go up-to 20 kHz if you’re lucky, anything above 40 kHz (+ margin ) sample rate is basically a waste. You cannot hear any of that content.

Now 24 bit audio is a bit different and an argument might be made for the audibility of it in some cases, but with properly dithered 16 bit content, you will have a very hard time hearing any difference.

years ago, I was able to discern different phono cartridges, so it is not my ears
That is not very strange: if you were to measure them, you would find vast differences, which are also clearly audible.
 
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Jimbob54

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i read in here somewhere that someone had blind listening to different dacs and they all sounded the same.
i desire to listen to hi res music from the net.
internet is 25 m speed connected to a samsung newer 8 k tv via cat 6 cable.
out of tv optical to my denon 2007 avr 2807 receiver opt 1.
speaker paradigm audio ref 60 v4 .
very new to net music , my stereo was used little in 2007 with a 1989 cd player and then stored to now.
so my tv has apps and when i listen to say from Spotify free tier vs Apple music, I cannot hear any differences?

I assume if i had a sacd player and a mp3 player plugged into receiver and listen to same tracks I would or should hear a big difference?
The Denon has 24/192 processing.
I have no clue about different ways and equipment to listen to. I just want to hear hi fi music, lost and confused with techno babble.
Apple music is to be at min cd quality where spotify free is very poor quality in comparison yet I do not hear anything only Spotify is a little louder.
one would think from the equipment I have I should hear differences?
I know the denon is not a dedicated power amp and a separate preamp may be better, but i should hear a difference in what I have, and then and if i want more quality at diminishing returns to move up.
Please send the Search and Rescue
Then enjoy the music through that system and source if you cant tell. Leave the handwringing and endless debate about sampling rates etc to the people who enjoy that side of things

No laws saying you have to use a source thats the highest possible resolution nor equipment of the highest spec to listen to it on.
 
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SKBubba

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Denon resamples everything to 48k anyway, unless you use Direct Mode. Also, the streaming apps for TV, roku, etc. probably aren't optimal. Also, Apple doesn't at this time have any way to feed their hi-res content to amps/avrs.

Even if you got a streaming dac setup to bypass the tv and feed your avr directly, you probably aren't going to hear much difference between spotify and amazon/apple/tidal/deezer cd or better resolutions. It's doubtful you would hear any difference between cd resolution v. higher resolutions.

If you have a pc or notebook pc (mac or windows) with an hdmi out, the cheapest way to find out is to install Qobuz free trial, connect hdmi from pc to your denon, select the hdmi as your playback device in the Qobuz app (making sure to specify exclusive mode), and try some albums at different resolutions from cd up to 24/192.

(This is the cleanest way to stream cd/hi-res. Amazon doesn't have exclusive mode, and Tidal uses MQA.)

Even then you can't be sure if they are the same mixes/masterings, or different.
 
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It’s really simple: your hearing will go up-to 20 kHz if you’re lucky, anything above 40 kHz (+ margin ) sample rate is basically a waste. You cannot hear any of that content.

Now 24 bit audio is a bit different and an argument might be made for the audibility of it in some cases, but with properly dithered 16 bit content, you will have a very hard time hearing any difference.


That is not very strange: if you were to measure them, you would find vast differences, which are also clearly audible.
I realize that hearing high Freq gets reduced with age, but clarity of the source in my cause would not. I understand dynamic range is increased with digital music vs Lp*s for example, do audibility Is what I am saying by using clarity Is what you are saying is digital music period is not better represented by using dac or CD players etc? properly Dithered?.
I realize there will be good recording vs terrible ones and by listening to these good recording thru a proper system should sound better, ie, a 24 bit recording should sound better than a 16 bit recording. There can’t be people spending $$$ on dac if lp have better overall all sound, ie less noise, less dynamic range etc. Remember, I am not that tech savvy .
so I take it if I don’t have a turntable all dac music is terrible and no he can hear differences from all the different internet sorcery of music?
 
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Denon resamples everything to 48k anyway, unless you use Direct Mode. Also, the streaming apps for TV, roku, etc. probably aren't optimal. Also, Apple doesn't at this time have any way to feed their hi-res content to amps/avrs.

Even if you got a streaming dac setup to bypass the tv and feed your avr directly, you probably aren't going to hear much difference between spotify and amazon/apple/tidal/deezer cd or better resolutions. It's doubtful you would hear any difference between cd resolution v. higher resolutions.

If you have a pc or notebook pc (mac or windows) with an hdmi out, the cheapest way to find out is to install Qobuz free trial, connect hdmi from pc to your denon, select the hdmi as your playback device in the Qobuz app (making sure to specify exclusive mode), and try some albums at different resolutions from cd up to 24/192.

(This is the cleanest way to stream cd/hi-res. Amazon doesn't have exclusive mode, and Tidal uses MQA.)

Even then you can't be sure if they are the same mixes/masterings, or different.
I just seen after last post, let me try and digest, I really appreciate you guys trying to educate me with this confusing subject
 
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I just seen after last post, let me try and digest, I really appreciate you guys trying to educate me with this confusing subject
i think the Denon 2807 has hdmi 1 and only for video, Quboz is not in Canada, Tidal told me that yes mqa but hi fi uses flac which by them says it is higher that cd quality.
if I had a newer receiver , or amp with the hdmi and do as you say it sounds to me that hi res is really not more audible quality for most pepole , even if the measurements say so?
 
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i think the Denon 2807 has hdmi 1 and only for video, Quboz is not in Canada, Tidal told me that yes mqa but hi fi uses flac which by them says it is higher that cd quality.
if I had a newer receiver , or amp with the hdmi and do as you say it sounds to me that hi res is really not more audible quality for most pepole , even if the measurements say so?
? 24/192 processing in Denon
 

SKBubba

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i think the Denon 2807 has hdmi 1 and only for video, Quboz is not in Canada, Tidal told me that yes mqa but hi fi uses flac which by them says it is higher that cd quality.
if I had a newer receiver , or amp with the hdmi and do as you say it sounds to me that hi res is really not more audible quality for most pepole , even if the measurements say so?
Pretty sure your avr will play audio over hdmi and show the pc app screen on the avr output monitor.

But if you can't get Qobuz it's moot. Second best would be to try a Tidal Hifi free trial. Also make sure to specify exclusive mode in the audio settings, and make sure the app is set to do the first MQA decode. You could also install Spotify on the same pc for side-by-side comparison.
 

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I just seen after last post, let me try and digest, I really appreciate you guys trying to educate me with this confusing subject

Your confusion is understandable - hi-res and high dynamic range are terms used to market all kinds of audio equipment.

High resolution normally refers to music which has an extended frequency response compared to CD. Instead of going to 20Khz, it goes to 96khz. The thing is, you can't hear, and none of your speakers can really reliably reproduce 20Khz or above, so the value of high resolution is dubious. If you were to take the information in high-res files that is above 20khz, and then pitch shift it down so it was audible, you would find it's all noise anyway (I've done this).

High dynamic range refers to music which can have greater differences between loud and soft signals. CD quality gives you 96db of difference, and high dynamic range is up to 24bit = 144db. Here's the thing - no electronic equipment in this universe can actually produce a signal with 24 bits of dynamic range, and the dynamic range of any actual recorded signal is a tiny fraction of that. In reality, the 16 bits (96db) offered by CD is more than anyone would ever need. Most music is less than 60db in dynamic range, and since db is a logarithmic scale (like the richter scale for earthquakes), 144db is many, many times larger than 60db.

To make a long story short, you probably can't hear it, it's not in your music and your equipment can't reproduce it.

Phono carts can sound far more different than any competently design digital system.
 

Lambda

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There is no big difference you will most likely not Abel to hear any difference.

I would not at all agree "16bit is all you ever need" but 24Bit is good enough for sure.
Everything begin equal 16bit/96 can be better then 16bit/44,1 Because you have more unused Frequency for dithering and noise shaping.

Almost Every modern DAC can do 24bit/192khz so you don't have to worry the format is holding you back
You have more Dynamic and Frequency available then you would ever need.
And you can be sure its the analog performance limiting and not the digital side.

get something in the green to blue area and your fine.
 

steve59

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I would think your system is good enough and modern dac's are affordable enough that hi rez done right will be noticed. For what you have invested in your system spending a few hundred bucks to upgrade the dac should bring some fun back into the same ol same ol.
 

SKBubba

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Not sure why the OP needs a dac. His avr has a dac. An external dac doesn't solve the OP's problem of how to stream content to the dac, either external or internal.
 

M00ndancer

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I would not at all agree "16bit is all you ever need" but 24Bit is good enough for sure.
Everything begin equal 16bit/96 can be better then 16bit/44,1 Because you have more unused Frequency for dithering and noise shaping.
Not agreeing at all. To use 24bit/96kHz in a studio is fine. All plugins and things you want to do "might" color the sound, so to be sure to have enough headroom you record, produce and master in 24/96.
Finally making a CDA, FLAC, ALAC, AAC, MP3, OGG VORBIS, MP4A file for the target customer. But then you dither the final product to 16/44.1 format as the consumer format before making the final file.

But as said in this tread, you can't hear 24/96 anyway. So buying hi-res audio is just waste of money, unless the master mix is new and improved and it's not available in FLAC or CD. (Won't go into the debate about lossless vs lossy formats.)
Just my opinion.
 
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Lambda

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produce and master in 24/96.
Finally making a CDA, FLAC, ALAC, AAC, MP3, OGG VORBIS, MP4A file for the target customer. But then you dither the final product to 16/44.1 format as the consumer format before making the final file.
And if you would ditter and release in 16/96 instead of 16/44.1 it would be better even if you don't care about the extended frequency range you would gain dynamic.

But today we can just use 24bit and don't worry
 

M00ndancer

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Spotify free tier vs Apple music, I cannot hear any differences?
You might, depending on use. I E Desktop/mobile app/web browser
it would be better even if you don't care about the extended frequency range you would gain dynamic.
There is no important info there. The limiting factor is still human hearing. 96dBa? is still more than enough.

CD vs HIRES
 
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