Help to a setup to make me feel better

[Peter Panner]

Hi all,

Due to health issues I’ll be forced to rest for long times on my couch/bed which means plenty of time to dedicate to music which means updating my hifi equipment. Unfortunately not in area where I can test things nor able to travel.

Idea:
Streaming Apple Music to amp + 2 speakers and hook up a TV screen for album art and lyrics.
I’m thinking of getting Wharfedale Lintons and a Yamaha 701.
My question is how can I stream Lossless to the amp and get in the TV screen?

Will a Wiim be the solution?
To complicate things, I’m smitten with the Yamaha AS-1200 but not sure if it is worth the >1000€ extra and if lack of digital inputs complicates things.

Any help/insights much appreciated.

 

[staticV3]

Hi @Peter Panner! Welcome to ASR.

A WiiM cannot output video of any kind.

To display album covers and lyrics, an Apple TV box may be your only choice, which however will limit sample rates to 48kHz.

That may sound like a downgrade, but the reality is that anything above 48kHz sample rate is entirely pointless for music enjoyment.

You physically cannot, and will not, hear a difference.

 

[ZolaIII]

How about Yamaha R-N 1000A or 2000A instead?

 

[Peter Panner]

How about Yamaha R-N 1000A or 2000A instead?

I thought about that but it would be the 2000A, don't laugh but the 1200's main feature for me would be th VU's, I know right...... But the 2000A is above my budget unfortunately. Another reason for not being sure about the tuner is that the streaming bit, software etc might be less bulletproof for future developments. If I can keep it separate I can 'switch out' the streaming but to have more flexibility is my thinking.

 

[Peter Panner]

Hi @Peter Panner! Welcome to ASR.

A WiiM cannot output video of any kind.

To display album covers and lyrics, an Apple TV box may be your only choice, which however will limit sample rates to 48kHz.

That may sound like a downgrade, but the reality is that anything above 48kHz sample rate is entirely pointless for music enjoyment.

You physically cannot, and will not, hear a difference.

Ok thanks. Excuse my ignorance but would I connect the HDMI from the ATV to the TV and take the audio from the TV to the amp?

 

[ZolaIII]

I thought about that but it would be the 2000A, don't laugh but the 1200's main feature for me would be th VU's, I know right...... But the 2000A is above my budget unfortunately. Another reason for not being sure about the tuner is that the streaming bit, software etc might be less bulletproof for future developments. If I can keep it separate I can 'switch out' the streaming but to have more flexibility is my thinking.

What you get with both R-N 1000A and 2000A is YPAO (room correction) and automatic loudness. 1000A will have power stages from A-S 70x/80x line which is fine. The 2000A from A-S 1000/1100. Yes main future of A-S 1200 are VU meters and looks. To be fair they improved typology a bit and improved separation in highs (which no one will hear). Streamer is just Wi-Fi reciver similar to rooter with software developed for it. Yamaha uses very old embedded boards for the purpose and it works fine. As long as Musicast software is developed and available you will be able to use it for let's say next 10+ year's and it works fine (I won't go into what it looks like and they pretty much look the same apps for: Sonos, WiiM, Yamaha and rest is far worse). R-N 1000A will be more than fine, that's if you want all in one integrated stereo power amplifier.

 

[ZolaIII]

Ok thanks. Excuse my ignorance but would I connect the HDMI from the ATV to the TV and take the audio from the TV to the amp?

You take audio out of the TV either trough HDMI ARC output from it to AMP/AVR supporting such input and adjusted to reciver capabilities (PCM stereo for stereo receivers) or the same way trough Toslink.

 

[gwing]

Are you fixed on Apple Music or are you open to other less locked in platforms?

As an example I use Tidal streaming from a Wiim which is in principle just a black box doing the streaming and sending it's audio to the amplifier. You then need to partner that with 'something' acting as a control device, for that I usually use my laptop but can also use both Android and Apple phones or Android (actually Firestick) TV and on those have a choice of either running the Wiim home app or the Tidal app which give me the 'Now playing' screen and lyrics. I like Tidal but this sort of setup is probably common to all/most of the non locked in streaming services and has the advantage that you don't need any sort of audio connection between the TV/laptop/phone and your audio system as these are just control devices/screens and the Wiim itself does the streaming i.e. the sound itself doesn't have to go through your TV, or for that matter through laptop or phone so those devices have no opportunity to fiddle with or degrade the audio.

edit: Reading back I see that you have some amplifier preferences, with a similar setup as described above you don't need any fancy HDMI or ARC or other connections all you need are standard phono/RCA connection or SPDIF|Toslink ones if you get an amp with a DAC in it and want to use those i.e. any amp will do and these days you can get unbelievably good simple amps at ridiculously good prices.

 

[staticV3]

Ok thanks. Excuse my ignorance but would I connect the HDMI from the ATV to the TV and take the audio from the TV to the amp?

You have two options:

Either do ATV->HDMI->TV->HDMI(ARC)->DAC, or ATV->HDMI->HDMI Extractor (Link)->SPDIF->DAC, plus Extractor->HDMI->TV.

In both cases, you can display album art on your TV. The first option routes audio through the TV itself while the second one bypasses the TV and sends audio directly from the ATV to your DAC.

 

[dkinric]

I use Roon (w/ Tidal), which also wirelessly displays album art on the tv while playing lossless audio through my streamer. I use my iphone or ipad for my controller using the Roon interface. So, there are album art display options where you don't need to be physically connected to the tv. This may open up more options for you.

 

[ZolaIII]

You don't need Roon or any hocus pocus with Yamaha and you don't need sending album art and such on TV, after all you will use iPhone and best displays now day's are in mobile phones. Watching movie and sending audio to amp will work as described and prefered way is still Toslink (being immune to noise and not degrading signal).

 

[Peter Panner]

Are you fixed on Apple Music or are you open to other less locked in platforms?

As an example I use Tidal streaming from a Wiim which is in principle just a black box doing the streaming and sending it's audio to the amplifier. You then need to partner that with 'something' acting as a control device, for that I usually use my laptop but can also use both Android and Apple phones or Android (actually Firestick) TV and on those have a choice of either running the Wiim home app or the Tidal app which give me the 'Now playing' screen and lyrics. I like Tidal but this sort of setup is probably common to all/most of the non locked in streaming services and has the advantage that you don't need any sort of audio connection between the TV/laptop/phone and your audio system as these are just control devices/screens and the Wiim itself does the streaming i.e. the sound itself doesn't have to go through your TV, or for that matter through laptop or phone so those devices have no opportunity to fiddle with or degrade the audio.

edit: Reading back I see that you have some amplifier preferences, with a similar setup as described above you don't need any fancy HDMI or ARC or other connections all you need are standard phono/RCA connection or SPDIF|Toslink ones if you get an amp with a DAC in it and want to use those i.e. any amp will do and these days you can get unbelievably good simple amps at ridiculously good prices.

Don't want to sound like a 'seperatist' but yes Apple, used it since ever and I'm old so ...... Yes, what you say in your edit made me doubt the Apple TV route and hence the WIIM bit. I like to keep it simple, thought about 'quality' HiFI streamers etc but I'm cheap and my experience is that fancy fancy stuff id not my thing. Unless they have VU meters I assume that a 1200A would take the audio signal from a WIIM.

 

[Peter Panner]

You have two options:

Either do ATV->HDMI->TV->HDMI(ARC)->DAC, or ATV->HDMI->HDMI Extractor (Link)->SPDIF->DAC, plus Extractor->HDMI->TV.

In both cases, you can display album art on your TV. The first option routes audio through the TV itself while the second one bypasses the TV and sends audio directly from the ATV to your DAC.

Thanks, second one is interesting, I assume I can listen without the TV on then....

 

[ZolaIII]

Don't want to sound like a 'seperatist' but yes Apple, used it since ever and I'm old so ...... Yes, what you say in your edit made me doubt the Apple TV route and hence the WIIM bit. I like to keep it simple, thought about 'quality' HiFI streamers etc but I'm cheap and my experience is that fancy fancy stuff id not my thing. Unless they have VU meters I assume that a 1200A would take the audio signal from a WIIM.

As much as I know WiiM is dropping AirPlay suport. If it's simplicity it's Musicast to be able to control all tied to audio trough single phone app including volume trough volume buttons on phone. Sorry there are no silver lining on current R-N lineup or VU meters. Forgot to mention AS1200 uses old motorised property unbalanced input lines rated at S'N'R of 110 dB, unsean on lower lineups from A-S/R-S 700 models. I cathed old stock A-S700 last year and settled down on it (for 500 $ with two years warranty). It's black but I don't spend much time looking at it. I also have old R-N402D discontinued 5 years ago and all streaming works as today. My use case is different and I dropped online streaming almost entirely do use local streaming from my DLNA server (old purposely reworked laptop). Giving in consideration your current condition I suppose you don't want anything playful to have to poke with around. YPAO ain't great but it still works and automatic equal loudness compensation is almost unique this day's and still handy future to have (YPAO automatic loudness). I won't give you anymore advices and I sincerely hope you get better. By the way welcome to ASR!
Edit: You can use Musicast and with iPad if that's useful for you (bigger display in hands).

 

[Peter Panner]

As much as I know WiiM is dropping AirPlay suport. If it's simplicity it's Musicast to be able to control all tied to audio trough single phone app including volume trough volume buttons on phone. Sorry there are no silver lining on current R-N lineup or VU meters. Forgot to mention AS1200 uses old motorised property unbalanced input lines rated at S'N'R of 110 dB, unsean on lower lineups from A-S/R-S 700 models. I cathed old stock A-S700 last year and settled down on it (for 500 $ with two years warranty). It's black but I don't spend much time looking at it. I also have old R-N402D discontinued 5 years ago and all streaming works as today. My use case is different and I dropped online streaming almost entirely do use local streaming from my DLNA server (old purposely reworked laptop). Giving in consideration your current condition I suppose you don't want anything playful to have to poke with around. YPAO ain't great but it still works and automatic equal loudness compensation is almost unique this day's and still handy future to have (YPAO automatic loudness). I won't give you anymore advices and I sincerely hope you get better. By the way welcome to ASR!

Thank you thank you, you're right I want it easy and simple. I'll sleep on it, the 1200 looks great but no digital inputs and way more than a 701. I know it's Apples and Oranges. Regarding the server, thought about that as a backup for when the net go down..... I might be back for that. Thanks to all great help!

 

[staticV3]

Thanks, second one is interesting, I assume I can listen without the TV on then....

Correct.

 

[ZolaIII]

It's not, A-S 70x/80x will perform about the same as AS1200 except mention better separation in highs which you won't be able to hear even as a child not too mention there won't be a lot to hear there in the first place. I fiddle a lot, use 2.2. stereo and a PC in the chain but I like that stuff. Even cheap Yamaha will last you for very long time and take a lot of beating. In that sense well good power amplifier will be fine as long as it lasts.

 

[Peter Panner]

It's not, A-S 70x/80x will perform about the same as AS1200 except mention better separation in highs which you won't be able to hear even as a child not too mention there won't be a lot to hear there in the first place. I fiddle a lot, use 2.2. stereo and a PC in the chain but I like that stuff. Even cheap Yamaha will last you for very long time and take a lot of beating. In that sense well good power amplifier will be fine as long as it lasts.

Thanks, confirming my thoughts, exaggerated, more than 1000€ more for those lovely VU meters.... I probably might last less than the amp

 

[Peter Panner]

It occurred to me that it might be possible to do what I want by connecting an iPhone/iPad via a DAC link to the amp, get an Airplay ready screen, and mirror the iPhone.... When tried I'll report back.

 

[jjk1]

Here’s how I consume Apple Music. It sounds like a PIA but it’s not really. If you have “retired” IOS devices handy.
I use Apple TV gen 3 devices for streaming because I have a few, and they cost about 30$ on eBay, and they will host a 24bit 48 kHz Apple Music stream and they are reliable. They have toslink outputs that new ATVs don’t have so for me it’s easier. I don’t have to tie up the tv set.

1. Start an airplay stream on iPhone to an ATV gen 3.
2. Join a SharePlay session with the iPhone on a retired iPad so I can prop it up on a stand near the tv and see what’s playing form my sofa.
3. Join the SharePlay session with my regular iPad to feed the play queue and control volume.
4. Watch baseball on the tv with the sound off