Gustard X18 Review (Stereo DAC)

[andreadilo]

That's why you need to match output levels before comparing. Louder will almost always = better in a preference test, and more than @.1dB difference can skew results. A multimeter makes it easy, as by ear or handheld phone app isn't going to do it with much confidence.

trimmed down the input of the X18 by 2dB and repeating the test, the difference now is less pronunciated but there is

 

[BDWoody]

trimmed down the input of the X18 by 2dB and repeating the test, the difference now is less pronunciated but there is

Not to be a buzzkill, but if you want to make it meaningful, match levels with a multimeter, and set it up to be a proper blind test.

I'm not saying it's not a hassle, I'm saying you won't really know unless you actually tighten your controls. Matching the levels closely is step 1.

That's one of the big tricks used to sell expensive cables and all kinds of nonsense...just turn it up a little. Suddenly, you're hearing details you've never noticed before, just like the guy told you to expect, and your wallet gets looted.

Give it a good try, and you may be surprised. If not, either is a great choice!

 

[andreadilo]

Not to be a buzzkill, but if you want to make it meaningful, match levels with a multimeter, and set it up to be a proper blind test.

I'm not saying it's not a hassle, I'm saying you won't really know unless you actually tighten your controls. Matching the levels closely is step 1.

That's one of the big tricks used to sell expensive cables and all kinds of nonsense...just turn it up a little. Suddenly, you're hearing details you've never noticed before, just like the guy told you to expect, and your wallet gets looted.

Give it a good try, and you may be surprised. If not, either is a great choice!

done with an app on the mobile phone, so I reached the-2dB

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

X18 seems to have an higher volume than the D90SE, probably due do different voltage output, but difference is audible.
X18 is brighter and more detailed than the D90SE, seems to somehow emphatize the mid frequency of the vocals

Thanks for sharing your results. Being a Gustard X16 owner, I'm glad to know that you liked the X18. That said, if levels were not matched to within 0.1 dB or better, all bets are off on meaningful subjective comparisons. Also, both DACs have selectable filters that have slightly different time-domain behavior…these must be matched also.

I illustrated the filter differences between the D90SE and X16 here:

Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

Nice @dsnyder0cnn. Suggest changing the Topping D90SE to Filter 5 "Fast-Roll Linear" (best IMO) to remove all that rippling in the frequency response from the apodizing filter (Filter 1). Thanks for the tip. I plan to measure the amplitude and time-domain behavior of all seven filters…perhaps...

audiosciencereview.com

I illustrated level matching to within 0.01 dB here:

Topping D90SE Review (Balanced DAC)

OK about the MQA part, I figured out what is happening but this does not mean what is happening is correct or incorrect. I simply do not know. So let me explain what is happening now. In Kandace Springs "The Women Who Raised Me". Everything works to plan. When all the appropriate settings are...

audiosciencereview.com

Of course, at the end of the day, it's all about owning a product that you truly enjoy using, for whatever reasons.

 

[Reynaldo]

Thanks for sharing your results. Being a Gustard X16 owner, I'm glad to know that you liked the X18. That said, if levels were not matched to within 0.1 dB or better, all bets are off on meaningful subjective comparisons. Also, both DACs have selectable filters that have slightly different time-domain behavior…these must be matched also.

That's why I wrote earlier, better pay half the price and buy an X16.
In the end the differences will be subtle, if they show up at all.

 

[Gradius]

WORST thing you can do in life is to listening to mqa. Even SATAN run away of it !

 

[Roland68]

WORST thing you can do in life is to listening to mqa. Even SATAN run away of it !

No, no, no, you're wrong!
While I think MQA is no worse at best (and then when do you need it?), the worst is the Sony SACD Ultimate Collection V. 1 & 2 SACD Introduction Sampler.
And if you say something else, then you have to hear it once a day as punishment .

But for that it brought the XMOS XU216 chip into the devices.

 

[sandeepsasi]

Hi everyone,

This is Sandeep from Bangalore, India. I've been a visitor of ASR for quite a long time and joined today. This is my first post on the forum.

We were using Allo USBridge Signature Player + Allo Revolution DAC as the source for music and Topping E30, connected to our TV over S/PDIF-optical, for movies. Finally, felt the need to have a better and unified source, a common remote control and the need to reduce the number of boxes in the A/V rack (We were also using Allo Shanti and Nirvana to power the sources).

We were unable to choose among X16, X18 and X26 pro DACs. Thanks to everyone who have participated in the threads related to these DACs, finally got X18 yesterday. Replies by @dsnyder0cnn were helpful and answered almost all questions we had in mind.

Only unknown before making the purchase was whether X18 would be compatible with the optical output of our TV. While we came across many reports of incompatibility, we could find few posts confirming that optical link does work with TVs (so, we could at least have assumed that our chances were 50/50 before buying). We didn't really want to go down the HDMI ARC audio extractor path as this would defeat our goal of reducing the number of boxes in the rack. In our case, X18 works well with our TV (Sony 55X9000F) over optical link. Hope this will help someone having the same doubt we had.

And, we like how X18 sounds our my chain.

With regards,
Sandeep Sasi

 

[Gradius]

the worst is the Sony SACD Ultimate Collection V. 1 & 2 SACD Introduction Sampler.

From:

SA-CD.net - Sony Super Audio CD, Ultimate Collection - Volume 1 + Volume 2

A complete list of all SA-CD titles worldwide with reviews, news and more.

www.sa-cd.net

"A very nice edition of a horrible selection of tracks. Classical tracks are the best of this edition and latin tracks the worst. Some oldies tracks dont deserve to be edited in sacd format, cd is enough to them.

An enstupid attempt to satisfy all musical tastes.

Not recomended at all"

Hmm... I see.

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

In our case, X18 works well with our TV (Sony 55X9000F) over optical link. Hope this will help someone having the same doubt we had.

And, we like how X18 sounds our my chain.

Welcome, and congrats! Enjoy.

 

[andreadilo]

post update after comparing them side by side this week end. I can confirm there is an audible difference.

system is composed by
Source: Oppo 205, Bluesound Node, Marantz ND8006
Pre: Mc C53
Final: MC312
speakers: B&W 702
both DAC are connected via XLR to the Pre, EQ deactivated of course
I bought the D90SE for 800€ (special promotion) and 749 for the X18, so for me price difference is not an issue

X18 seems to have an higher volume than the D90SE, probably due do different voltage output, but difference is audible; using a sound meter, I compensated the X18 of -2dB gain.
X18 is brighter and more detailed than the D90SE, seems to somehow emphatize the mid frequency of the vocals, while the D90 seems to be more equilibrated, at the end is a personal taste to decide one or the other.
Playing MQA is not possible to select filters (FIR), so the processing should be similar in this case,
My wife took 10 seconds of playing (Hey you MQA version in this case from Tidal) to decide she prefers the X18
My daughter took several minutes, switching from one input to the other, before decidind she also prefers the X18
I did myself a blind test, not knowing at which input the two DAC were connected, but in the end I prefers the X18.
The X18 seems to be more resolving than the already exceptional D90SE, the different instrument can be identified better on the X18.

I will keep the X18 and send back the D90SE, but the X18 has an issue with the cover of the optical port, that is broken, so the connection is a bit "loose", connectors seems to be better on the D90SE, while the case is better and more sturdy on the X18. Display is much better on the D90SE.

 

[Gradius]

@andreadilo No offence, but you posted +98% the very same thing as in:

Gustard X18 Review (Stereo DAC)

But then there would be no advantage in buying the X18. Well, there are not enough differences to upgrade from an X16, but the bigger display letters, lower output impedance, and improved volume control mean that the X18 would be practical to directly drive an amplifier vs having to use a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

 

[andreadilo]

@andreadilo No offence, but you posted +98% the very same thing as in:

Gustard X18 Review (Stereo DAC)

But then there would be no advantage in buying the X18. Well, there are not enough differences to upgrade from an X16, but the bigger display letters, lower output impedance, and improved volume control mean that the X18 would be practical to directly drive an amplifier vs having to use a...

www.audiosciencereview.com

for an unknown reason, I was not able to update the original post, so I wrote a new post containing the updates, I dont' see the problem.

 

[gerG]

Having an odd issue with my X18. As I turn the volume up from 22 to 21 there is a dropout, a change in sound, and a shift in the image. Anybody else run across this?

 

[mocenigo]

post update after comparing them side by side this week end. I can confirm there is an audible difference.

[...]

My wife took 10 seconds of playing (Hey you MQA version in this case from Tidal) to decide she prefers the X18
My daughter took several minutes, switching from one input to the other, before decidind she also prefers the X18
I did myself a blind test, not knowing at which input the two DAC were connected, but in the end I prefers the X18.

Did your wife and your daughter also perform a blind test?

Roberto

The X18 seems to be more resolving than the already exceptional D90SE, the different instrument can be identified better on the X18.

I will keep the X18 and send back the D90SE, but the X18 has an issue with the cover of the optical port, that is broken, so the connection is a bit "loose", connectors seems to be better on the D90SE, while the case is better and more sturdy on the X18. Display is much better on the D90SE.

 

[andreadilo]

[...]


Did your wife and your daughter also perform a blind test?

Roberto

Yes

 

[mocenigo]

Yes

This is an interesting data point

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

This is an interesting data point

Not really. OP said that they matched levels using an SPL meter. That's not sufficiently precise to eliminate level differences that could skew preferences in one direction or the other. In my experience, all bets are off unless levels are matched to within 0.1 dB.

In the case of Topping D90SE vs Gustard X18, it matters not since the X18 and D90SE have virtually identical performance and sound quality. Differences come down to features and physical layout. Where those differences don't matter, Gustard is the better value.

 

[exwhyzed]

Is Gustard in trouble? They released the well-measuring X18 and there's very little web presence about it.

There is only one amazon.com review about it, and two amazon.ca reviews. The in-stock indicator on amazon is barely showing any sales movement.

Shenzenaudio.com who is selling the darn thing does not even have 1 user review about it.

A thread on Headfi.org started a week ago about this DAC does not even have one response.

What's going on here? The buying market has unpredictably changed somehow. How can this be fixed? Dropping the price $300 perhaps, to get people to buy it? I don't know.

Soon a new DAC will be on the scene and make waves, and then the X18 will fade into antiquity like all those before it. even though it is apparently an excellent DAC (and still on my list to get).

 

[dsnyder0cnn]

Is Gustard in trouble? They released the well-measuring X18 and there's very little web presence about it.

There is only one amazon.com review about it, and two amazon.ca reviews. The in-stock indicator on amazon is barely showing any sales movement.

Shenzenaudio.com who is selling the darn thing does not even have 1 user review about it.

A thread on Headfi.org started a week ago about this DAC does not even have one response.

What's going on here? The buying market has unpredictably changed somehow. How can this be fixed? Dropping the price $300 perhaps, to get people to buy it? I don't know.

Soon a new DAC will be on the scene and make waves, and then the X18 will fade into antiquity like all those before it. even though it is apparently an excellent DAC (and still on my list to get).

I bought a couple of X16's from Apos before Apos dropped Gustard as a brand. I'm not sure of the reason, but I've been asking Apos to add them back. If I was buying today, I'd choose the X18, but I have no real reason to upgrade.

There are so many inexpensive DACs now with measurements that are beyond reproach, like the Topping D10 Balanced, E50, and the S.M.S.L. SU-9n. Combine that with fewer folks being interested in MQA. It's a tough time to be a $750 DAC, even with great features and instrument-grade performance.