OP
- Thread Starter
- #21
Cool. Will check and report back in a few days. Thanks
-
Welcome to ASR. There are many reviews of audio hardware and expert members to help answer your questions. Click here to have your audio equipment measured for free!
Got Scanspeak Revelator 15W/8530K00 and Scanspeak Tweeter D2904/980000 - What to build?
- Thread starter prasanth.nath
- Start date
OP
- Thread Starter
- #22
OP
- Thread Starter
- #23
As others have mentioned, Troels probably does not want the complete crossover posted. Only him and whoever built this crossover are going to know the correct values.
If not miswired, the value of R1 is important too. Have you tried to contact Troels?
If not miswired, the value of R1 is important too. Have you tried to contact Troels?
OP
- Thread Starter
- #25
Roy_D
Active Member
Greetings from the Netherlands ^^ I am curious if you managed to restore the Ellam 98 mk2 to proper functioning and if it became a more pleasing speaker?
I remember seeing the Ellam 98 mk1 back in 2005 online and considering building one - the Mk2 looks promising but your thread made me think..
I remember seeing the Ellam 98 mk1 back in 2005 online and considering building one - the Mk2 looks promising but your thread made me think..
OP
- Thread Starter
- #27
Apologies for the late reply.
I removed the cross over and put in a minidsp 2x4 in between. I didn't get a chance to measure properly and do the cross over properly, I just tried to mimic what Troels did.
It sounds alright IMO
IN hind sight, I would strongly suggest a JBL 305mkii or something similar over any of these. The sound character, tonality, "correctness" are miles apart.
In fact I find the JBl 305 mk2 better than my Lx mini in terms of tonality.
I removed the cross over and put in a minidsp 2x4 in between. I didn't get a chance to measure properly and do the cross over properly, I just tried to mimic what Troels did.
It sounds alright IMO
IN hind sight, I would strongly suggest a JBL 305mkii or something similar over any of these. The sound character, tonality, "correctness" are miles apart.
In fact I find the JBl 305 mk2 better than my Lx mini in terms of tonality.
I am a person who can design high-level networks.
The speakers are a bit poorly chosen now.
1. An 8-ohm woofer is well matched with a 6-ohm or 8-ohm tweeter.
2. The dB difference is a bit high.
3. A woofer with a higher dB is easier to listen to.
4. I don't think there are many tweeters that are suitable for a woofer.
5. The appropriate woofer is 15W4531G00.
If you re-network with this woofer, I will let you know.
6. High-end speakers with DSP (genelec, etc.) have a 6th-order network, so they produce very good and clear sound.
8. And the power should be similar. The woofer is 60W and the tweeter is 160W. What is this? I think that choosing a 4-ohm tweeter for an 8-ohm woofer is already a bit of a wrong choice. In my opinion, I don't think it's an appropriate choice of woofer and tweeter.
9.I think the sound quality is poor due to signal attenuation caused by too much sound pressure reduction in the area around the crossover, and I think the sound quality degradation was caused by an improper network configuration.
The speakers are a bit poorly chosen now.
1. An 8-ohm woofer is well matched with a 6-ohm or 8-ohm tweeter.
2. The dB difference is a bit high.
3. A woofer with a higher dB is easier to listen to.
4. I don't think there are many tweeters that are suitable for a woofer.
5. The appropriate woofer is 15W4531G00.
If you re-network with this woofer, I will let you know.
6. High-end speakers with DSP (genelec, etc.) have a 6th-order network, so they produce very good and clear sound.
8. And the power should be similar. The woofer is 60W and the tweeter is 160W. What is this? I think that choosing a 4-ohm tweeter for an 8-ohm woofer is already a bit of a wrong choice. In my opinion, I don't think it's an appropriate choice of woofer and tweeter.
9.I think the sound quality is poor due to signal attenuation caused by too much sound pressure reduction in the area around the crossover, and I think the sound quality degradation was caused by an improper network configuration.
Last edited:
Woffer; 15W4531G00--4ohms, 87dB, 60W.
Direct; 0.22mH/0.19mH/0.18mH=1.884090/1.076315/0.7472222=3.70762dB
Indirect; 6.8uF/6.2uF/5.6uF=1.828863/1.329637/0.722098=3.88 dB
Tweeter; D2904/980000--- 4ohms, 88dB, 160W
Direct; 47uF/33uF/30uF=0/1.2613636/1.6875=3.76136361 dB
Indirect; 1.3mH/1.2mH/1.0mH=0/1.092727272/1.502=3.0980 dB
Resistor; 1ohms/11.46ohms(11-12ohms)
If you configure your network like this, I expect you'll hear good sound.
Direct; 0.22mH/0.19mH/0.18mH=1.884090/1.076315/0.7472222=3.70762dB
Indirect; 6.8uF/6.2uF/5.6uF=1.828863/1.329637/0.722098=3.88 dB
Tweeter; D2904/980000--- 4ohms, 88dB, 160W
Direct; 47uF/33uF/30uF=0/1.2613636/1.6875=3.76136361 dB
Indirect; 1.3mH/1.2mH/1.0mH=0/1.092727272/1.502=3.0980 dB
Resistor; 1ohms/11.46ohms(11-12ohms)
If you configure your network like this, I expect you'll hear good sound.
Last edited:
If you want to hear a better sound than the 6th network above, you can configure it as an 8th network.
This network is interconnected with a crossover reduction of 5.5dB, and then a steep slope is formed by the 6th or 8th order network in the woofer or tweeter, reducing the tweeter sound pressure in the midrange, so that only the woofer sound is heard primarily, resulting in a high S/N and a clearer sound, showing the general good sound quality shown by high-end speakers. I am the only one who can write like this. If you configure a network like this, you will never fail. An 8th order network can be easily extended by making only a 6th order, by adding capacitors or inductors close to the crossover value that do not affect the crossover by 0dB.
Woffer;
Direct; 0.22mH/0.19mH/0.18mH/0.15mH =1.884090/1.076315/0.7472222=3.70762
Indirect; 6.8uF/6.2uF/5.6uF/4.7uF=1.828863/1.329637/0.722098=3.88
Tweeter;
Direct; 50uF/47uF/33uF/30uF=0/1.2613636/1.6875=2.9488636
Indirect; 1.4(or 1.5)mH/1.3mH/1.2mH/1.0mH=0/1.092727272/1.502=2.594727272
Resistor; 1/11.46ohms(11-12ohms);
The network is designed so that the diameter of the inductor connected in series to the woofer is 1 mm or more, and the diameter of the inductor connected in parallel to the tweeter is approximately 0.8 mm, and the resistance value is calculated accordingly.
This network is interconnected with a crossover reduction of 5.5dB, and then a steep slope is formed by the 6th or 8th order network in the woofer or tweeter, reducing the tweeter sound pressure in the midrange, so that only the woofer sound is heard primarily, resulting in a high S/N and a clearer sound, showing the general good sound quality shown by high-end speakers. I am the only one who can write like this. If you configure a network like this, you will never fail. An 8th order network can be easily extended by making only a 6th order, by adding capacitors or inductors close to the crossover value that do not affect the crossover by 0dB.
Woffer;
Direct; 0.22mH/0.19mH/0.18mH/0.15mH =1.884090/1.076315/0.7472222=3.70762
Indirect; 6.8uF/6.2uF/5.6uF/4.7uF=1.828863/1.329637/0.722098=3.88
Tweeter;
Direct; 50uF/47uF/33uF/30uF=0/1.2613636/1.6875=2.9488636
Indirect; 1.4(or 1.5)mH/1.3mH/1.2mH/1.0mH=0/1.092727272/1.502=2.594727272
Resistor; 1/11.46ohms(11-12ohms);
The network is designed so that the diameter of the inductor connected in series to the woofer is 1 mm or more, and the diameter of the inductor connected in parallel to the tweeter is approximately 0.8 mm, and the resistance value is calculated accordingly.
Last edited:
OP
- Thread Starter
- #31
I have to admit that all of the above comments are beyond my understanding.
Thank you anyways for attempting to help.
If someone knowledgeable can convert the above comments to: "Do abcd.. on minidsp", that will be useful.
Thank you anyways for attempting to help.
If someone knowledgeable can convert the above comments to: "Do abcd.. on minidsp", that will be useful.
Compared to the speakers I've made before and the active speaker KRK Rokit 4, I can feel that the sound quality is superior only when the network is at least 4th order. And the superiority is definitely clear when the network is at least 6th order. The Ellam 98 MK II has a circuit that has inductors and capacitors that have a negative effect on the sound quality and is a 2nd network. In that case, the sound quality is poor. It is a poor-quality network circuit design that only tries to flatten the so-called sound pressure.
Ellam 98 MK II The network design that made this is way behind mine, so ask me and I'll show you a better network design. It's free!
Ellam 98 MK II The network design that made this is way behind mine, so ask me and I'll show you a better network design. It's free!
Last edited:
If you ask me, I will make the best network. For example, if you tell me what kind of characteristics the tweeter should have for a 5-inch woofer, such as emotional sound, fast response sound, or more natural sound, and tell me the characteristics and size and other conditions, I will suggest it accordingly. And I have the ability to make the network more than 6-order and design the resistance and all the values just right, so please tell me anytime.
8th network
Woofer; 15W4531G00--4ohms, 87dB, 60W.
Direct; 0.22mH/0.19mH/0.18mH/0.15mH =1.884090/1.076315/0.7472222/0=3.70762
Instead; 6.8uF/6.2uF/5.6uF/4.7uF =1.828863/1.329637/0.722098/0=3.88
Tweeter; D2904/980000--- 4ohms, 88dB, 160W
Direct; 50uF/47uF/33uF/30uF =0/0/1.2613636/1.6875=2.9488636
Instead; 1.4(or 1.5)mH/1.3mH/1.2mH/1.0mH = 0/0/1.092727272/1.502=2.594727272
Resistor; 0.8/16ohms, 6th, I calculated it again and it was a mistake, so I'm correcting it.--> Changed to 0.97ohms(0.47+0.5)/12.45(12-13)ohms, 8th. Corrected the resistance value with more accurate calculation.
The resistances are added together as in the example in parentheses to create an approximate value, so you can match the sum of the two resistance values.
Woofer; 15W4531G00--4ohms, 87dB, 60W.
Direct; 0.22mH/0.19mH/0.18mH/0.15mH =1.884090/1.076315/0.7472222/0=3.70762
Instead; 6.8uF/6.2uF/5.6uF/4.7uF =1.828863/1.329637/0.722098/0=3.88
Tweeter; D2904/980000--- 4ohms, 88dB, 160W
Direct; 50uF/47uF/33uF/30uF =0/0/1.2613636/1.6875=2.9488636
Instead; 1.4(or 1.5)mH/1.3mH/1.2mH/1.0mH = 0/0/1.092727272/1.502=2.594727272
Resistor; 0.8/16ohms, 6th, I calculated it again and it was a mistake, so I'm correcting it.--> Changed to 0.97ohms(0.47+0.5)/12.45(12-13)ohms, 8th. Corrected the resistance value with more accurate calculation.
The resistances are added together as in the example in parentheses to create an approximate value, so you can match the sum of the two resistance values.
Last edited: