GoldenSounds passes apparently ABX test for DACs (NOT Really)

[ObjectiveSubjectivist]

But still, the main point remains, this difference, while discernable for him, is so itsy bitsy tiny and has nothing to do with other claimed differences in sound, like soundstage or thin mids or whatever, that it wouldn´t be worth mentioning or investing in.

Exactly that.

 

[Soria Moria]

His video was a big nothingburger that I'm sure a lot of people will link as a 'gotcha!' while trying to argue for all kinds of differences they claim to hear.

 

[Jeromeof]

Maybe he is really a young "Hans Beekhuyzen" where you see some good measurement gear in the background at the start of a review but by the end of the review you realise he never used that gear

 

[VientoB]

Maybe he is really a young "Hans Beekhuyzen" where you see some good measurement gear in the background at the start of a review but by the end of the review you realise he never used that gear

That guy is something else. He seems to think streamers affect the sound.

 

[admiralnorman]

if I recall correctly where he talks quite lengthy about jitter

I've noticed that in his videos he sometimes spends more time on a stand out spec or test result relative to the product. Seems to have the intention of teaching about that spec or data point beyond just that device. But it would be weird if he then deep dived that spec in every video. They would all be over an hour long. I don't know if it's intentional or not but I'm pretty sure that is what is happening.

 

[sam_adams]

Maybe he is really a young "Hans Beekhuyzen"

Hans Beekhuyzen!

 

[Hayabusa]

Nice video, nice test, plausible I would say

 

[DEALUX]

Of course, nothing in the video says that this is a major or even significant difference, and it should be completely obviated simply by not using 44.1khz sampling with the rare tracks that actually have 20khz+ content.

Was the clickbait video title used for views or is he going to use this to employ his usual snake oil marketing tactics to promote his favorite brands? Because there is a long way from "I can hear a slight difference in DAC filters" to "this DAC sounds more detailed" and other subjective nonsense.

 

[kemmler3D]

I am fully willing to accept the idea that different reconstruction filters with measurable differences in the audible band can sound different. It would be weird if they didn't, it's just that most people don't hear 20khz+ well or at all, so it's not usually relevant.

As for whether DACs "have a sound", that's a somewhat different, if related question. If the subjective impression isn't plausibly related to small changes in FR in the treble I'm still waiting for evidence.

Good job to Goldensound, as long as it's all true, seems like he has a combination of sharp ears and listening skills.

Also goes to show how small the differences we seem to argue about really are. You need apparently someone with really great hearing and test conditions that somewhat increase the degree of difference to hear it. At 39 my hearing is sadly nowhere near good enough to pick out differences in treble like that.

 

[DEALUX]

It doesn't matter. Most of the headphones in his collection are tuned like garbage. That matters a lot more than a filter.

 

[Blumlein 88]

It doesn't matter. Most of the headphones in his collection are tuned like garbage. That matters a lot more than a filter.

It appears he specifically used one with a high end peak. Would it be audible with one following a Harman curve? I have some Grado SR-80 phones. They are pretty hot, and not as hot as what he used in the upper frequencies.

 

[DEALUX]

It appears he specifically used one with a high end peak. Would it. be audible with one following a Harman curve?

Possibly but on open backs you get a ton of masking if there's ambient noise in your surroundings.

 

[MacClintock]

The test reminds me of the High-Res vs CD one Amir once did. True, he did pass it and could discern the two music files, proven by a positive ABX test. But he did it by cranking up the volume and comparing the noise floor at the end of the tracks, so nothing that has anything to do with a musical quality difference of any of these formats. Thus, probably one has to pay attention to not make "passing an ABX test" a fetish, it might not prove anything relevant at all.

 

[kemmler3D]

The test reminds me of the High-Res vs CD one Amir once did. True, he did pass it and could discern the two music files, proven by a positive ABX test. But he did it by cranking up the volume and comparing the noise floor at the end of the tracks, so nothing that has anything to do with a musical quality difference of any of these formats. So, probably one has to pay attention to not make "passing an ABX test" a fetich, it might not prove anything relevant at all.

It proves it's possible in principle, which is something. Now instead of saying "people can't hear the difference between filters" we will just say "most people can't hear the difference between filters"... from a marketing perspective this is a world apart.

 

[lazarian]

It proves it's possible in principle, which is something. Now instead of saying "people can't hear the difference between filters" we will just say "most people can't hear the difference between filters"... from a marketing perspective this is a world apart.

Or more fully, people can't hear the difference between filters that don't roll off through audible spectrums, and most can't hear the difference at all if above 30 years old.

 

[CedarX]

Are the actual files used by GoldenSounds for his ABX comparison available somewhere? I couldn’t find them…

 

[Blumlein 88]

Are the actual files used by GoldenSounds for his ABX comparison available somewhere? I couldn’t find them…

If you go to youtube in the description he has some links. Here it is below.

https://drive.google.com/drive/folder...

 

[Coverpage]

As for whether DACs "have a sound", that's a somewhat different, if related question. If the subjective impression isn't plausibly related to small changes in FR in the treble I'm still waiting for evidence.

I don't think this community is saying DACs have no sound. Correct me if I'm wrong, from what I understand from the consensus, we are suggesting that "well-measuring" DACs are indistinguishable with strict controls. This means that DACs with certain thresholds on SINAD, flatness in frequency response, etc. are indistinguishable.

Does this mean we acknowledge that those DACs, which may not measure well, let's say Chord Dave, can be distinguishably different? I suppose we do.

If we acknowledge that, then there may be thresholds or, more generally, guidelines by which we can say that DACs on the market can sound different. Whether the sound is preferable or otherwise would be up to the individual.

 

[Coverpage]

It doesn't matter. Most of the headphones in his collection are tuned like garbage. That matters a lot more than a filter.

And yet the DCA Expanse and Stealth, which measure better than most other headphones, are not the clear winners in terms of sales.

Frequency response measurements through a sine sweep or chirp and its adhenrence to the Harman target are not all there is to a pair of headphones.

 

[solderdude]

Maybe the price has something to do with sales numbers rather than the adherence to a target on a specific test fixture ?

Does this mean we acknowledge that those DACs, which may not measure well, let's say Chord Dave, can be distinguishably different? I suppose we do.

Dave measures well. It has some oddities in one channel that should not be there at that price level and the brand is filled with snake-oily stuff but is certainly audibly transparent.
Chances are something was technically wrong with the Dave Amir tested.
The seen weirdness in measurements is far below any audible levels so on direct comparison, level matched should still be indistinguishable from say ... a Topping E30-II for instance.