General design stupidity

[pjug]

Don't feel bad. I had a colleague who was not 'stupid' (he was a physician, so he had to have gotten through med school, somehow). Doc wanted a new car. and the dealer gave him a 'loaner' to try out for the day. After arriving to work, he locked the car, but didn't realize it was still running. After all, the key was in his pocket. Must have had a full tank, because at the end of his shift he got in and drove off.

I've done that one too. Just for ten minutes or so, but still...

My dad's friend borrowed my dad's pushbutton car and played a round of golf while he left it running the whole time. I think this must happen pretty often.

 

[anmpr1]

So yesterday I go to pay property taxes. The collector is in the same building as the court, so to enter you have to go through a TSA type of screening. Security confiscated my key fob and put it in quarantine. Maybe because the Victorinox nail file and mini-scissors could be used to create a hostage situation. Or possibly it was the Pop A Lock bottle opener they objected to.

Anyhow, as we were leaving I forgot to get the fob. The car started because my wife had her fob (they didn't take hers because it didn't have dangerous weapons attached). Drove away, made it to a big box hardware store. Waifu got out of the car while I was still fumbling around gathering the shopping list. When I tried to turn off the car, an idiot message (whose the idiot? ) pops up on the dash mounted telescreen advising me that the car will not shut off because the key fob is not detected. It was then I realized I'd left my key at the government office.

I'm not proud to report this bit of absent-minded stupidity. But I feel I owe it to the group, being the honest person I am. I never had this problem, BTW, on my '65 Dodge pickup truck.

 

[maverickronin]

the car will not shut off because the key fob is not detected.

That's at least better than some of the other cars mentioned in this thread.

 

[Katji]

...Why, what is the purpose of it?

 

[anmpr1]

...Why, what is the purpose of it?

As near as I can figure, it has to be punishment for past life misdeeds. But seriously, in the case of electronic 'push button' and remote ignition, I think the startup idea was theft prevention. The first implementation I can rememeber was in the steering column lock--you needed the key in the ignition before you could unlock the steering wheel, and start the car. In the old days it was possible (they say, and in the movies) to fool with the wires under the dash and start the car. You can't do that with an electronic key fob. Although their may be other ways.

Whether any of it makes our lives better, is still an open question.

 

[Katji]

(Now that car thieves have scanners, electronic devices, I don't know.) But my first thought was, what if they hijack the car, the key is in your pocket or something and you get out, then they can't switch off the car / the engine, eventually.

 

[Emlin]

(Now that car thieves have scanners, electronic devices, I don't know.) But my first thought was, what if they hijack the car, the key is in your pocket or something and you get out, then they can't switch off the car / the engine, eventually.

Yes, I've always refrained from kidnapping people on the basis that I might not be able to turn off their cars if they escape.

 

[Andreas007]

So yesterday I go to pay property taxes. The collector is in the same building as the court, so to enter you have to go through a TSA type of screening. Security confiscated my key fob and put it in quarantine. Maybe because the Victorinox nail file and mini-scissors could be used to create a hostage situation. Or possibly it was the Pop A Lock bottle opener they objected to.

Anyhow, as we were leaving I forgot to get the fob. The car started because my wife had her fob (they didn't take hers because it didn't have dangerous weapons attached). Drove away, made it to a big box hardware store. Waifu got out of the car while I was still fumbling around gathering the shopping list. When I tried to turn off the car, an idiot message (whose the idiot? ) pops up on the dash mounted telescreen advising me that the car will not shut off because the key fob is not detected. It was then I realized I'd left my key at the government office.

I'm not proud to report this bit of absent-minded stupidity. But I feel I owe it to the group, being the honest person I am. I never had this problem, BTW, on my '65 Dodge pickup truck.

View attachment 185410

This is quite surprising. I know it the other way round: The person with the fob leaves the car and you go on driving. Then you turn-off the engine and there you are...waiting...

Maybe there is a special shut-down procedure if the fob is missing? P-position maybe?
This behaviour makes only sense while still driving.

 

[mansr]

Maybe there is a special shut-down procedure if the fob is missing?

Just put it in a high gear and release the clutch.

 

[Katji]

Yes, I've always refrained from kidnapping people on the basis that I might not be able to turn off their cars if they escape.

Which makes it worse, of course.............it will probably lead to a situation of taking the person/s and getting them to get the key out their pocket along the way. ................[Daily occurrence here, i'll check for the latest figures.]

 

[Emlin]

Which makes it worse, of course.............it will probably lead to a situation of taking the person/s and getting them to get the key out their pocket along the way. ................[Daily occurrence here, i'll check for the latest figures.]

Cunning.

Right, I'm off to find my first victim...

 

[Katji]

...Q1 2021 police stats, total 2078: average approximately 23 per day.

 

[rdenney]

(Now that car thieves have scanners, electronic devices, I don't know.) But my first thought was, what if they hijack the car, the key is in your pocket or something and you get out, then they can't switch off the car / the engine, eventually.

If it's clever enough to defeat thieves, it will be too clever for users. But in a hijack situation, the key and the owner are available to the bad guys, and they'll know what they need as well as anyone.

Personally, I think the proximity detector in the key fob was added 1.) because they could, 2.) to facilitate remote starting, and 3.) to avoid the expense of a physical key lock. Cars are ruthlessly cost-engineered, so even the cost of that will be considered by the bean counters.

My Ford has remote start, but is from the model year preceding Ford's implementation of keyless operation. It's fiddly, to say the least. Lock the doors with the main key fob, press the remote start fob twice, or some such. Then, as soon as you open the door the engine stops, and then to restart it requires the physical key. My previous Ford was actually one model year newer and had the newer keyless system. Each has its convenience.

I once rented a car that had keyless starting--my first experience with it. I parked it at the facility where I was running a workshop, and after the day-long workshop, came out to the car and discovered it was still running.

That's not as stupid to me as using touch screens instead of physical, tactile buttons. In a moving car, a touch screen seems to me a user-interaction nightmare. I'm driving in a dynamic environment--everything is moving and subject to various accelerations. Rather than running a finger across buttons on a dashboard, with just a bit of a glance to get my bearings, I now have to stare at the spot on a smooth screen and, without any way to brace my arm (which is responding to the dynamic environment differently than the dashboard), land on a colored spot that is barely as large as the tip of my fat fingers. Gloves? Nope. A bit of tremor? Too bad for you.

We all know the reason for using touch screens instead of physical buttons: They are cheaper and more flexible, being ordered by software rather than hardware. So, it's a convenience for the designer, and part of that ruthless cost engineering, but it's hostile to the user. Lexus tries to solve it with a joystick, as if that helps. I still have to stare at the screen on the dashboard to align the cursor.

(My last two Fords have had voice activation, as does my wife's Lexus. None of them can recognize my voice reliably--too deep and too close to the ambient noise spectrum.)

Rick "wouldn't be so bad if the software was even remotely competent" Denney

 

[Katji]

That's not as stupid to me as using touch screens instead of physical, tactile buttons. In a moving car, a touch screen seems to me a user-interaction nightmare. I'm driving in a dynamic environment--everything is moving and subject to various accelerations. Rather than running a finger across buttons on a dashboard, with just a bit of a glance to get my bearings, I now have to stare at the spot on a smooth screen and, without any way to brace my arm (which is responding to the dynamic environment differently than the dashboard), land on a colored spot that is barely as large as the tip of my fat fingers. Gloves? Nope. A bit of tremor? Too bad for you.

We all know the reason for using touch screens instead of physical buttons: They are cheaper and more flexible, being ordered by software rather than hardware. So, it's a convenience for the designer, and part of that ruthless cost engineering, but it's hostile to the user. Lexus tries to solve it with a joystick,

:-s Remember when the concern was to ban using cell phones while driving?
...Joystick is nuts.

(My last two Fords have had voice activation, as does my wife's Lexus. None of them can recognize my voice reliably--too deep and too close to the ambient noise spectrum.)

Yesterday: https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...h-power-amp-and-subwoofers.30702/post-1082976
Post said Valium, instead volume. "DAC does not display Valium." Turned out he was using voice-to-text.

 

[somebodyelse]

The initial problem is pretty stupid - the infotainment system bootloops because it received an image file without an extension on its filename in the data broadcast by the radio station. If you take Mazda at their word, the REALLY #*&! STUPID part is that there's apparently no way to recover it (factory reset to clear the offending data, flash a clean firmware version or whatever.)
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/0...attle-bricks-some-mazda-infotainment-systems/

Then again Apple had a similar issue with iPhones bootlooping due to a malformed text message a couple of years back...

 

[JJB70]

Quite often seemingly stupid design decisions are driven by procurement processes and assessment criteria, or the reasons for a seemingly silly design are perfectly sensible but not immediately obvious. I regularly see media and social media articles of the why-oh-why type bemoaning warship designs. In some cases I completely agree but there is always a reason for a design choice. In other cases the design choices prompting criticism were well considered and rational if people thought about what it was intended for.

 

[Katji]

The initial problem is pretty stupid - the infotainment system bootloops because it received an image file without an extension on its filename in the data broadcast by the radio station. If you take Mazda at their word, the REALLY #*&! STUPID part is that there's apparently no way to recover it (factory reset to clear the offending data, flash a clean firmware version or whatever.)
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2022/0...attle-bricks-some-mazda-infotainment-systems/

Then again Apple had a similar issue with iPhones bootlooping due to a malformed text message a couple of years back...

I can't get over how these huge mega-rich corporates apparently can't even get to basic testing. ...Especially Microsoft, a software company.

 

[anmpr1]

That's not as stupid to me as using touch screens instead of physical, tactile buttons. In a moving car, a touch screen seems to me a user-interaction nightmare.

Touchscreens are the worst. The C/D review of the new GTI/R shows how user unfriendly it's become. Great driving car(s), but horrible ergonomics. So you get in, and it's freezing cold outside, and inside. Adjust the cabin heat, or turn on the warmers? No knobs or sliders for that. Instead, you take off the gloves that are keeping your fingers warm (can't use gloves on the screen) and navigate through a sluggish menu-tree in order to find the correct function menu. Want to make adjustments when driving? Can't, unless you want to run over someone's dog.

On my other VW product (probably a lot of other brands are similar), if you wear polarized sun glasses, the dash mounted Nav-o-Tainment tablet becomes difficult to read. Have to remove sunglasses in order to view messages, etc.

For car makers, it's easier and a lot cheaper to route user controls through a central screen. Cost are up to actually design/manufacture nobs, sliders, buttons and switches. Not saying we should go back to the future, but my grandfather's mid-60s Dodge pickup I inherited had two vent knobs, a choke (remember them?), and a switch for the lights/wipers. I don't even think it had a radio. It was a working farm truck. Not like luxury pickups sold today.

Don't have Dodge anymore (wish I did), but I compare it to my Dynaco EL-34 amp, and AHB2. That old Dodge Veg-o-Matic (actually, it had a '3 on the Tree' transmission) drove sloppily with a pretty rough fit 'n finish. Not much power from a Slant Six. Nevertheless, you could work on it with a few basic tools, and once you 'learned the choke', it started up with just a few twists of the key. (Working a choke was sort of an 'art'. All cars back then were a little different, in that respect. The worst were floor activated gas pedal chokes, IMO. Youth today don't know what they are missing--LOL)

When I was younger, the old man and I would routinely work on his car. It was not uncommon. If you needed a part you'd order something from JC Whitney's catalog. To compare, one of my Dyna Mk IV's went south the other day. I was easily able to troubleshoot it down to a shorted rectifier tube. Put my order in to Tube Depot, that day. Like my current car, I wouldn't even know where to start, if Benchmark acted up.

 

[peanuts]

speakers without crossovers are the dumbest audio products by far.
these people have no understanding of how to make one and the believe the absence of one gives greater control and more details.
zu audio are the first that come to mind.

 

[Weeb Labs]

The Epic Games launcher is an abomination. Allow me to demonstrate.

I want to install Unreal Engine 5. How do you think one is supposed to accomplish this?

Oh, that's simple. It's obviously the dropdown menu on the top right, isn't it?

Nope.

Well, surely it's the plus button next to Engine Versions, then?

That's using the old noodle. But you're wrong.

Okay, then. How about the Early Access button on the news page?

Nope.

Do you give up yet? Because it's actually under the dropdown menu for version 4.27.2.

They previously included a dedicated tab for UE5 but it was recently removed; presumably because it made things too easy.

I'm going to bed, now.