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In my case, GLM set the crossover at 170Hz (not 500Hz).
That seems really low. Wouldn't it have a dispersion width bulge with the crossover that low?
In my case, GLM set the crossover at 170Hz (not 500Hz).
The W371 isn't a sub though, so crossing it over at 80Hz would be daft.
I think he meant crossover between the W371 and the subwoofers, not the crossover between the 8351/8361 and the W371.
If you've got 4 well integrated subwoofers, they're most likely gonna be smoother than the W371, so you'll likely want to let them play up as high(say 80-120Hz) as they can. I do see is his point. If you've got subs doing 10-100Hz, W371 doing 100-170Hz, and then 8361 doing 170-20,000Hz, how much value can the W371 really be adding? I'm sure it's still a net gain, but $9,000 worth?
TBH I always thought that the big benefit of the W371 would be its performance from 200-500hz where the "omni subs approach" would be far less practical. So to find that GLM picks crossovers below 200hz is pretty surprising to me...
If you have 4 well integrated subwoofers all the reasons I have for considering W371 have gone.I think he meant crossover between the W371 and the subwoofers, not the crossover between the 8351/8361 and the W371.
If you've got 4 well integrated subwoofers, they're most likely gonna be smoother than the W371, so you'll likely want to let them play up as high(say 80-120Hz) as they can. I do see is his point. If you've got subs doing 10-100Hz, W371 doing 100-170Hz, and then 8361 doing 170-20,000Hz, how much value can the W371 really be adding? I'm sure it's still a net gain, but $9,000 worth?
For me personally the price is worth it for losing the hassle of dicking about interminably with software and having 4 more big boxes to find locations for. I have zero free wall space in my room and zero inclination to ruin the layout by moving stuff to create it!Yeah, not only that, but while I know it's a different method, you can buy 4(or more!) great subs that go up to 200hz for a lot less money. And can use Multi-Sub Optimizer or another approach like that to get very flat response. TBH I always thought that the big benefit of the W371 would be its performance from 200-500hz where the "omni subs approach" would be far less practical. So to find that GLM picks crossovers below 200hz is pretty surprising to me...
100% agreed. I too am surprised it would pick a crossover so low. If you want controlled directivity, it seems like anything below ~240Hz or so wouldn't work.
@pierre , have you experimented with raising that crossover?
A recent masters thesis had a look at this topic, there is a lot of background stuff at the beginning but it gets somewhere at the end.
https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/bitstream...Kantamaa_Olli_2020.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y
If you have 4 well integrated subwoofers all the reasons I have for considering W371 have gone.
I have largely dealt with bass room interaction in my room with speaker location, the peaks that remain are small but could be (as far as the marketing videos imply) resolved by one of the W371's modes (which is, in effect, 4 managed well spaced bass drivers if I am understanding the reason for the tall cabinet and widely spaced drivers correctly) to have 4 bass sources for exactly that reason.
My interest is to get a more even bass than I have now (and I have little to complain about, actually) without more subs. Having two speaker "stands" that effectively perform this function would be the best possible solution in terms of disturbance to my listening room and habits.
OTOH I find the ones an eyesore so the combination would have to be a knockout SQ improvement for me to tolerate them in my line of sight.
What is benefit of directivity control in transition region and below?
A recent masters thesis had a look at this topic, there is a lot of background stuff at the beginning but it gets somewhere at the end.
https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/bitstream...Kantamaa_Olli_2020.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y
This is something I'm not sure of at all. I do have opinions, though.
1. Below 100Hz, I'm pretty convinced that it's of no benefit. I actually think it's a detriment, as it's wasting energy down there that could be more headroom for EQ. The CD and Null steering modes are useless here IMO for home use, which is why I'd be crossing to multiple subs around 100Hz.
2. Below 200Hz, I'm undecided. Almost all of the in room measurements I've seen of Kii and D&D have shown those speakers to be a little more effective at dealing with SBIR. I'd love to know how audible this is.
3. Between 200-500Hz, this is where I'm fairly positive the CD and Null steering can be very effective and make a noticeable difference. I have peaking and nulling issues in that range for all of my speakers. Ex(right speaker):
View attachment 129188
This is also right in that region that Toole says is responsible for "envelopment". My guess is that being directive there may lose some sense of envelopment, but will likely gain cleanliness and clarity. For those who want to hear what's on the recording, I would think this is a good option to try.
*Edit: It seems like @fluid ' s thesis and research may directly address some of my questions.
A recent masters thesis had a look at this topic, there is a lot of background stuff at the beginning but it gets somewhere at the end.
https://aaltodoc.aalto.fi/bitstream...Kantamaa_Olli_2020.pdf?sequence=2&isAllowed=y
Seems like your main goal is smoothness of the frequency response? For some rooms, the location of the driver producing the frequency range could be more important than the extended directivity control.
When we recently compared the 8Cs/hedd’s/8351Bs the 8Cs measurements between the 80-200 Hz region were much tidier, ie half in terms of cancellation/reinforcements , bear in mind the client had measured th 8351s with GLM and I measured the 8Cs ( from the same LP ) with REW.
Keith
When we recently compared the 8Cs/hedd’s/8351Bs the 8Cs measurements between the 80-200 Hz region were much tidier, ie half in terms of cancellation/reinforcements , bear in mind the client had measured th 8351s with GLM and I measured the 8Cs ( from the same LP ) with REW.
Keith