Is there anyone that listened to both and can tell me about differences? I'm wondering if the Ones are worth the price of admission. I understand that everyone has their budgets, I just don't like to spend more than I need to, especially for marginal improvements. Specifically I was considering 8330 vs 8331.
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Genelec 83x0 vs 83x1
- Thread starter boniek
- Start date
I have not listened to the 8331 unfortunately(really, really want to, but The Ones seem hard to find in BC, Canada). I have, however, listened to the 8330 and the Neumann KH80, as well as looked over all their measurements. I bought the KH80 over the 8330.
They all have similar amounts of bass, and very flat on-axis frequency response. I couldn't really tell the difference by ear on-axis in the nearfield. I did not attempt to evaluate reflections, I listened nearfield in a music store and their room was very cluttered and nothing like mine so I didn't really see the point.
The big difference between these 3 speakers is vertical directivity. The 8330 have the worst, the KH80 are better, and the 8331a are the best. I evaluated vertical response just by listening off-axis, and you can certainly hear the cancellation at the crossover on the 8330 if you do that.
So the question really comes down to how much you care about vertical directivity. Does off-axis listening matter to you?(Vocals changing when you stand up annoys me more than it probably should). Are there nearby surfaces that will cause strong vertical reflections?(a desktop). Is there a carpet/other treatment that would absorb those reflections?
Answering those questions should help decide which of these speakers you'd prefer.
They all have similar amounts of bass, and very flat on-axis frequency response. I couldn't really tell the difference by ear on-axis in the nearfield. I did not attempt to evaluate reflections, I listened nearfield in a music store and their room was very cluttered and nothing like mine so I didn't really see the point.
The big difference between these 3 speakers is vertical directivity. The 8330 have the worst, the KH80 are better, and the 8331a are the best. I evaluated vertical response just by listening off-axis, and you can certainly hear the cancellation at the crossover on the 8330 if you do that.
So the question really comes down to how much you care about vertical directivity. Does off-axis listening matter to you?(Vocals changing when you stand up annoys me more than it probably should). Are there nearby surfaces that will cause strong vertical reflections?(a desktop). Is there a carpet/other treatment that would absorb those reflections?
Answering those questions should help decide which of these speakers you'd prefer.
Genelec 8331A
Genelec 8330A
Neumann KH80
Horizontal Directivity
Vertical Directivity
Neumann KH80
Horizontal Directivity
Vertical Directivity
Attachments
The 8331a do not have the low frequency directivity control of their bigger brothers, unfortunately.
I'm using the KH80 in a surround setup and have room correction from the AVR(and sub integration), which I'm using because I need it for the other speakers anyway. It's just OK. However, they do have DSP built-in(if you have an iPad to run it...), and you could pretty easily measure with REW and then apply the DSP directly to the speakers' filter that way. Long term I'm planning to upgrade to an AVR with Dirac built-in.
You're absolutely right that GLM is more automated than Neumann's system and I didn't consider that -- I think you should always use some kind of room correction and if you don't want to use REW/Dirac/anything else, the 8330 are probably the better buy, since they come with it. E: Although I do think the measurement kit costs an additional $300.
I have 8340 and 8341. The 8341 is slightly better, the difference increases if the room is untreated. I listen to them side by side and prefer the most expensive one. This was sighted, level matched, calibrated by glm.
I baught the 8340 for surround and the 8341 for LCR. i could have gone for 5x8340 and have a killer system too.
both benefit from a sub. For the same budget I would take a 8360 and two 8340.
I find the look&feel of 8341 much better.
I baught the 8340 for surround and the 8341 for LCR. i could have gone for 5x8340 and have a killer system too.
both benefit from a sub. For the same budget I would take a 8360 and two 8340.
I find the look&feel of 8341 much better.
- Thread Starter
- #8
I want convenience of auto calibration (I don't intend to spend time to learn REW) and option to customize my FR curve to suit my tastes.
In order to do that with Neumann's I would have to buy iPad and stereo (or multichannel) dac/preamp with Dirac and Dirac multi sub. That gets way, way more expensive than 300 usd for GLM kit. So Neumann's are out due to poor value. I'm sure this will change when they will release their own auto calibration kit and DSP tinkering will be available on more platforms, not just iPad.
8260 is way too big for my needs (nearfield on computer desk) and too expensive. It is hard to imagine how 8340 vs 8341 sounds from technical data thus I am asking for your experience - how would you describe differences in soundstage (width, depth, precision)? I assume that this is what differs between them most since both are supposed to be pretty neutral otherwise. Anything helps really
8260 is way too big for my needs (nearfield on computer desk) and too expensive. It is hard to imagine how 8340 vs 8341 sounds from technical data thus I am asking for your experience - how would you describe differences in soundstage (width, depth, precision)? I assume that this is what differs between them most since both are supposed to be pretty neutral otherwise. Anything helps really
8360 (not 8260) is a subwoofer. It will definitively make a difference in bass extension and total max spl. Except than that listening sweet spot is larger with 83x1. Depending what you do with them that may be important or not. In my case, I can move around the console and have a consistent spl.
to sum up, there are not many differences. I would choose the model wrt to the max spl you want for your room. 8320x2+1x8350 may be enough too. When you listen to all the genelec monitors side by side, they don’t differ much except on spl capabilities. Can you listen side by side? If you are in Europe, you can order both sets from Thomann or similar and send back the one you don’t like. I am sure Sweetwater or similar does the same in the us.
I have upgraded the 8330 to 8331 and there definetly is a difference but not a huge one. Both are VERY enjoyable. I also have the 7350 sub and that works wonders with these. With the 8330 I used to change the volume a lot more, but with the 8331 less. The 8331 seem to be ’boringly good’ where you just don’t notice them and you don’t have to tweak the sound anymore.
Senior NEET Engineer
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I don't think the 8331 is worth considering unless it is an arm's length away. When I demo'd them at dealer from a few feet away, they were near clipping with dynamic music at comfortable listening level. The purpose of that model is ultra tight spaces. If the 8351B was released when I was shopping, I would have got that instead.
Now that you have had more time with them, do you think the difference going from the 8330 to 8331 is worth all the extra money?
I try and live by the phrase "those who buy cheap buy twice" but it's not quite enough to convince me to go for the $2,600 monitor (8331) instead of the $1,000 one (8330). My room is treated and relatively well behaved so I'm not even sure that the 8330 is worth the extra relative to the 8030.
Hephaestus
Active Member
As Senior NEET Engineer said earlier the benefits are likely in the ultra near field user scenario.
Wouldn't buy the 8331, the racetrack woofers must be ridiculously tiny. Another tangential question: is the 8330 worth the ~50% cost increase over the 8030? If you use a 73x0 subwoofer, you can still use DSP with the classic (analog) line.
5-6k for the 8260 on eBay. Even if you have to pull your desk out and put them on stand behind, if you want bass extension and the coaxial dispersion like The Ones, at half off these are hard to beat, and Genelecs charts say they are fine a meter away.
Wouldn't it be similar to get the 8341 or 8331 with a 7350 or two? You get updated coaxial drivers and the LSE port you can't have in the 8260. And more placement freedom.
Where I agree with you, is that the 8260 was a better choice than the 8351A (before the new Ones got out).
What are you seeing price wise for an 8341 and two subs? The ports are already massive on the 8260… you would have better mobility with the smaller monitors you're right.
Also, with the newer ones, like the 8361a, I don't think they are superior except for controlling dispersion lower.
They have a larger tweeter to go louder, but all of the Ones after the 8260 are +/-1.5 dB instead of +/-1.
I'd like to talk to Genelec more about it, but the original goal of the minimum diffraction coaxial driver is shown in the 8260 and 8351: a smooth continuous surface with minimal ridges to cause the smallest amount of diffraction.
Not sure what happened, but the ridges on the newer series don't look like the minimum amount of diffraction is being aimed for.
I'd like to hear an 8361 side by side though. Probably cant hear that it's slightly less accurate, and the better Directivity control would probably be more noticeable, though maybe it's an even split because I'd likely notice the less extended bass.
Also, with the newer ones, like the 8361a, I don't think they are superior except for controlling dispersion lower.
They have a larger tweeter to go louder, but all of the Ones after the 8260 are +/-1.5 dB instead of +/-1.
I'd like to talk to Genelec more about it, but the original goal of the minimum diffraction coaxial driver is shown in the 8260 and 8351: a smooth continuous surface with minimal ridges to cause the smallest amount of diffraction.
Not sure what happened, but the ridges on the newer series don't look like the minimum amount of diffraction is being aimed for.
I'd like to hear an 8361 side by side though. Probably cant hear that it's slightly less accurate, and the better Directivity control would probably be more noticeable, though maybe it's an even split because I'd likely notice the less extended bass.
Well, here, the 8260 can be bought new for 6800€ new, and the 8341 for 5600€. With two 7350, it's "only" 900€ more. Since the woofer-midrange crossover frequency for the 8260 is 500 Hz instead of 80 Hz for the 7350/8341, you don't get the full coaxial advantages.
About the port, I really do believe that Genelec's LSE enclosure has a point, otherwise they'd make "normal" subwoofers.
What I noticed, though, is that the 8260 has a very wide directivity, that can't be compared to the Ones, so there's a reason for buying them.
About the port, I really do believe that Genelec's LSE enclosure has a point, otherwise they'd make "normal" subwoofers.
What I noticed, though, is that the 8260 has a very wide directivity, that can't be compared to the Ones, so there's a reason for buying them.
USD, 8260 monitors for under $6,000 vs an 8341+subs system for $9k (I'd mentally probably do the 10" subs to feel like I was getting something on par or better which puts the second system close to 2x the price) . Closer than I though going with 8" subs, and yeah the LSE I'm sure is a great port, but the audible difference ports make is usually allowing air to move without chuffing, which the flared ports on the 8260 also does well. the LSE is more or less a streched out version of the ports that Genelec uses on their monitors, flared at both ends of the constricted space, but in the case of the LSE port, it's a larger surface area.
I'm curious what you mean about losing coaxial advantages. Are you talking about the dual woofers in the 83x1 range being acoustically coaxial and allowing the directivity to be controlled at lower frequencies?
The dispersion on the 8260 is similar to The Ones, as it's their progenitor, and measurements show the dispersion to be close. The 8361 seems to be a little closer to 45 degrees off axis before it's 3dB down, and the 8260 and 8351 are similarly close to the 30 degree mark.
https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn...f191cc9/genelec_8240_8250_8351_8260_opman.pdf
Also, the dispersion of the 8260 remains narrower than the 8341. The 8260 goes down around 400hz before it's dispersion is greater than 3dB 60 degrees off axis. The 8341 goes to about 700hz doing the same thing, so I'm not sure about the dual woofers controlling directivity better which is what I thought one of the advantages was, but now it looks like it's purely baffle size, as the 8351 and 8361 seem to be the only ones that do directivity better than the 8260.
I wish I had a plot for the JBL M2 dispersion. Wouldn't be surprised if Genelec beat them at their own game, and with 1/3 of the physical volume too.
Not bashing the Ones, as I think they are well engineered, but I think it's important to recognize where they are better (more controlled directivity in the larger models, and better vertical dispersion,) vs where they aren't quite as good, (bass extension, and dispersion in the models that are smaller than the 8260.)
Also, hiss: I've heard the class D in the 8240, and they did a really good job getting rid of hiss. Anyone with "The Ones" know if they hiss even less? I should dig for the self noise measurements, as those might show it, but another concern with the newer 83x1a models is the larger, perhaps more efficient tweeter having a bit more hiss, which to me isn't worth it because the "advantage" of the larger tweeter is loudness, and I don't play any speakers at max volume or even close unless I unlock them to show off to friends.
I'm curious what you mean about losing coaxial advantages. Are you talking about the dual woofers in the 83x1 range being acoustically coaxial and allowing the directivity to be controlled at lower frequencies?
The dispersion on the 8260 is similar to The Ones, as it's their progenitor, and measurements show the dispersion to be close. The 8361 seems to be a little closer to 45 degrees off axis before it's 3dB down, and the 8260 and 8351 are similarly close to the 30 degree mark.
https://assets.ctfassets.net/4zjnzn...f191cc9/genelec_8240_8250_8351_8260_opman.pdf
Also, the dispersion of the 8260 remains narrower than the 8341. The 8260 goes down around 400hz before it's dispersion is greater than 3dB 60 degrees off axis. The 8341 goes to about 700hz doing the same thing, so I'm not sure about the dual woofers controlling directivity better which is what I thought one of the advantages was, but now it looks like it's purely baffle size, as the 8351 and 8361 seem to be the only ones that do directivity better than the 8260.
I wish I had a plot for the JBL M2 dispersion. Wouldn't be surprised if Genelec beat them at their own game, and with 1/3 of the physical volume too.
Not bashing the Ones, as I think they are well engineered, but I think it's important to recognize where they are better (more controlled directivity in the larger models, and better vertical dispersion,) vs where they aren't quite as good, (bass extension, and dispersion in the models that are smaller than the 8260.)
Also, hiss: I've heard the class D in the 8240, and they did a really good job getting rid of hiss. Anyone with "The Ones" know if they hiss even less? I should dig for the self noise measurements, as those might show it, but another concern with the newer 83x1a models is the larger, perhaps more efficient tweeter having a bit more hiss, which to me isn't worth it because the "advantage" of the larger tweeter is loudness, and I don't play any speakers at max volume or even close unless I unlock them to show off to friends.
Senior NEET Engineer
Addicted to Fun and Learning
8361 is the upgrade/successor for 8260. 10 years of driver and amp improvements, plus much larger waveguide. Constant directivity to 60hz with W371 add on.
