Feedback from SoundPath Tri-Band Wireless regarding 19ms latency

[geek101]

I want to use this for surround back speakers in a 5.1 setup for active speakers to avoid long rca cable (25 ft) run.

Seems like approximately 20 ms latency is the spec.

Did anyone notice auditory lag with respect to visual content?.

I appreciate any feedback from actual users or science based results showing 20 ms is too much lag for movies.

Thanks in advance

 

[voodooless]

20 ma is about 7 meters.

You can try to have your AVr figure out the delays/distances on its own, and make it work. Otherwise, you’ll have to get creative, and add 7 meters of distance to every speaker that is not wirelessly connected on top of the normal distance to the listener.

This will obviously add delay to all channels, but at least, it will sync the sync for all channels. Next you can use the lip sync correction to sync up audio and video again.

See below, this is wrong thinking

 

[radix]

I use it for my rear channels with a Yamaha WXA-50 and a Denon 6700 for L/R/C/subs. After running the setup, it uses:

Front L/R: 9ft (that's pretty close to true distance)
Center: 8.2 ft (again pretty close)
sub 1&2: 12.5 ft (hardwired, and it's a few feet too far)
Surround L/R: 28.2 ft (they are about 3' away)

Marc

 

[voodooless]

I use it for my rear channels with a Yamaha WXA-50 and a Denon 6700 for L/R/C/subs. After running the setup, it uses:

Front L/R: about 9ft (that's pretty close to true distance)
Center: 8.2 ft (again pretty close)
sub 1&2: 12.5 ft (hardwired, and it's a few feet too far)
Surround L/R: 28.2 ft (they are about 3' away)

Marc

Yes, I’m thinking that I made a mistake in my initial thinking. The distances you dial in or calibrate are the delays/distance to the listening position. So the wireless speakers only need to be 7 m further away, and the rest can remain. The AVR will do the rest

 

[geek101]

Yes, I’m thinking that I made a mistake in my initial thinking. The distances you dial in or calibrate are the delays/distance to the listening position. So the wireless speakers only need to be 7 m further away, and the rest can remain. The AVR will do the rest

Sorry I don’t understand, are you saying I have to let AVR know the distance which should account for 20 milliseconds of latency introduced by SVS wireless device ?.

 

[geek101]

I use it for my rear channels with a Yamaha WXA-50 and a Denon 6700 for L/R/C/subs. After running the setup, it uses:

Front L/R: 9ft (that's pretty close to true distance)
Center: 8.2 ft (again pretty close)
sub 1&2: 12.5 ft (hardwired, and it's a few feet too far)
Surround L/R: 28.2 ft (they are about 3' away)

Marc

You have not perceived any problems ? Have you run any experiments with it to verify ?

 

[voodooless]

Sorry I don’t understand, are you saying I have to let AVR know the distance which should account for 20 milliseconds of latency introduced by SVS wireless device ?.

No, i mean that in general, the best way is to let the AVR figure it out by itself, like you did. It will compensate automatically

 

[radix]

You have not perceived any problems ? Have you run any experiments with it to verify ?

I do not perceive any timing problems, but I have not done any controlled experiments.

When watching movies with decent rear effects, like foot steps that go from front to back, it seems OK to me. But I am not being critical about it.

I did not do any special setup, I simply let the Denon figure out the distances.

I have measured the tri-path. Me and @abdo123 both measured about 19ms latency. To me, it look constant, but I did not measure over a long duration.

SVS SoundPath Tri-Band Wireless Audio Adapter Review and measurments-ish

The Tri-Band Wireless Audio Adapter is the newest Wireless transmitter from SVS, for those who would like to place their subwoofers (or Speakers) in the optimal location in their room but do not want to extend long meters of cables. It's 200$ USD per Transmitter and Reciever but SVS support has...

www.audiosciencereview.com

If I have time tonight, I will try to play REW through the front L and rear L and see if I can measure the time arrival difference at the main listening position.

 

[geek101]

No, i mean that in general, the best way is to let the AVR figure it out by itself, like you did. It will compensate automatically

Humm good point , I will run audyssey and see what distance it sets

 

[radix]

FYI, Denon seems to recommend the distance between speakers be less than 20' (6m).

Distances AVR-X6700H

manuals.denon.com

That likely explains why the distance for my center (8.2') and distance for my rears (28.2') are exactly 20'.

The 20'/6m limit would suggest the Denon can correct up to 17-18 msec. I could not find an actual specification for this apart from the recommended distance limit. Also, Denon allows the distance field to bet set to up to 60.0 ft / 18.00 m, so I don't know if this is really a hard limit or if that 8.2'/28.2' correlation is just chance or something meaningful.

As I mentioned before, I'll try measuring timing differences in REW tonight.

 

[radix]

I followed the directions from minidsp for speaker time alignment. I plugged into my laptop into the TV (Sony Bravia) with HDMI.

I did confirm that the Denon will not accept any speaker delta greater than 20' (6m). You can make all your distances large, but no more than 20'/6m difference between them.

Measurement	FL	FR	SL	SR
Actual (feet)	8.5'	9.3'	4.6'	3.9'
Audyssey setup (feet)	9.0'	9.0'	28.2'	28.2'
Measured delay (msec)	(reference)	0.45 msec (6.1")	-23.35 msec (-26' 3")	-23.36 msec (-26' 3")

Using the FL as the reference, the FR measured 0.45s slow (6.4"), which would mean its further away than expected. This might be because I put the UMIK-2 slightly off center (which the 8.5' vs 9.3' would vouch for).

The -23 msec delta for the SL and SR means the speakers are closer than expected and I need to reduce the 28.2' distance. If I change the distance to 4.2', I get a delay of 0.68 and 0.66 msec (SL/SR respectively). I could have tweaked it a bit more, to maybe 4.3' or 4.4', but didn't take the time. Those are basically the actual distances.

This confuses me. I don't know why the SL and SR would be at their natural distances if the SVS Tri-path is adding about 19 msec of delay.

I've attached the measurement data. The FL and FR and SL all have the subs turned on. The other measurements do not. I think a few things have changed since I last ran Audyssey, so the rears are a bit loud and I have a bad drop out on the FL around 110-160 Hz that I need to debug.

I did try some listening tests, but I could not find something with, for example, someone talking in fronts and someone else talking in rears, so do not feel confident based just on music and effects to say one way or another.

I will keep plugging away at this, I don't like not understanding the measurements versus Audyssey distances and SoundPath delay.

 

[radix]

From REW, I played a chirp test, 1ms cosine window every 1s out the SL and copied it to the timing reference (L). They sound synchronous. I reset the distance to 24' and they sounded not synchronous. So, I'll believe the REW measurements that the rears, connected via the SVS Tripath, do not need a giant delay. But I still don't understand why. I assume there's something configuration related going on either through the TV or the Denon that I don't understand. Well, it's getting late. I'll need to come back to this.