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Fan-less silent PC

Abe_W

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It is practically impossible to hear a 'silent' Noctua fan inside a HTPC 10 or 12 feet away.
It is practically impossible to hear a Noctua fan at a lower speed setting in a Desktop PC setup from 3 to 4 feet away.
Fan-less PC? Not worth the trouble...
 

luft262

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I am going to build a completely silent PC to act as a music server. These folks will build you one for not much more than parts cost. https://www.quietpc.com/sys-sidewinder-i17
Decided to build my own because it will be fun and I am temporarily grounded by leg surgery. Yes, NUC’s are cheaper but they have fans and I want to retire the standard desktop I have in another room running Roon server for a cool looking one sitting in my audio rack. Gonna stick a couple of big SSD’s in it and use it as a file server too. I’ll take some pictures when I’m done.
If you use Noctua fans I promise you will not be able to hear the fans, even with the music off, unless your head is merely inches from the case.
 

Abe_W

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How many? My guess is something crazy (read: unnecessary) like 4 or 6, likely including top fans which are going to be more audible for obvious reasons. A small build might only need 1 fan on CPU and perhaps an exhaust fan too.


You used fan curves right? From a normal distance (say 60cm+) a Noctua fan at 500rpm isn't going to be heard. if you have 6 of them, then yeah, you might hear something, but few people need 6.

Any 'audio optimized' low performance PC where a low performance CPU never gets pushed only needs a single static pressure optimized Noctua for the CPU's air cooler. Zero intake or exhaust fans are necessary if the case has some ventilation.
A gaming PC would be an entirely different story, of course.
 
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rwortman

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Interesting how so many disparage any amplifier with a fan but are happy to have one in a PC in their listening room. I have used Noctua fans in other builds. They are quiet but A- not impossible to hear, and B-don’t stay quiet forever. After a year or so, I was replacing them as their bearing wore. ”Not worth the trouble’? It’s not more trouble, it’s about $400 more money than a similar build in a fan case. Is amp A worth $400 more than amp B? Whether something is worth the money is a never ending argument in audio. I think the Streacom FC5 case looks great in my stereo rack. That and the fact that it is dead silent at any distance and will never require a replacement fan makes it well worth it to me. I have a Roon server and NAS that looks like an adio component for about $1750. If you took the 2 big NAS SSD’s out of it and made it as just a server only it would be $700 less. Much less than what Roon charges for the Nucleus. I know there are cheap solutions, I was using one. Cool looking gear is part of audio, and this fits. Roon response is eyeblink fast now too. If you‘re being frugal Roon isn’t worth the money either but it’s worlds better than the other server DB’s I’ve tried. (LMS, Foobar, Jriver) After 5 years of subscribing, I just got the lifetime subscription.
 

Berwhale

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They are quiet but A- not impossible to hear, and B-don’t stay quiet forever. After a year or so, I was replacing them as their bearing wore.

On the other hand - The 4 Noctua fans in my current PC are 5 years old and still work perfectly well and are no louder than when purchased. My previous PC (which I sold to a colleague for his son) had 4 Noctua fans in it and is still working fine as well - it would be about 9 years old now (4th gen i5 build).

The only time i've experienced a fan bearing fail (and i've been building PCs since 1990) was a CPU fan on an i486DX2-50 in a PC which I'd spec'd for an acquaintance who lived in Tenerife. Tenerife is subject to wind blown sand from the Sahara (known as The Calima), the sand had been sucked into the PC where it literally ground away the bearing. On the plus side, I got flown to Tenerife to fix it and have a weeks holiday (which was nice as I was poor college student at the time).
 
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rwortman

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I wouldn’t necessarily say they failed. One day I would notice a slight fan noise I hadn’t heard before. I would open the case, isolate the offending fan, and replace it. Probably did this three times in 5 years and then just decided to turn the PC off when listening to music. This was because I have my desk and working PC (two case fans) in the same large room as my audio system and didn’t want to turn it on and off all the time. I am currently in the process of replacing it with a laptop and docking station.

I think a fanless PC in a good looking case is a cool thing to have for an audio server. If most of the rest of you don’t, fine.
 

Berwhale

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I think a fanless PC in a good looking case is a cool thing to have for an audio server. If most of the rest of you don’t, fine.

I have nothing against good looking and/or fanless PCs (my router is one), I just think that you can get effectively the same results for less money with a little care and attention to case and component selection.

Also, unless you're buying a passively cooled laptop, it might end up being louder than a desktop. I had to bodge an undervolted (running from 5V USB) Scythe fan onto the stand that my work laptop (Thinkpad T14 Gen2) sits on to stop the internal fan spinning at high RPM...

IMG_20230211_190812 (Small).jpg
 
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rwortman

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just think that you can get effectively the same results for less money with a little care and attention to case and component selection
In this particular case, at this particular time, I didn’t really care much about the cost. I wanted this case with decent components inside so I built it.
 

AnalogSteph

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I would be very surprised to see a Noctua fan fail after only a year (even in horizontal mounting), they are not your average crappy sleeve bearing job after all and are rarely run all out to boot.

Realistically, I would expect even basic fans to last a long time when mounted vertically and generally run at modest speeds. The 140 mm intake fans that came with my Fractal Define R5 have been running for a year now and are no louder than they were then, though admittedly they have a very easy life most of the time (one is only running when needed, and they're rarely seeing more than a good 700/500 rpm). The Noctua fan on my NH-U14S is usually idling away at around 300 rpm, ramping up to 700-850 when CPU package power is pushing 125 watts (my current PL1 setting). That is definitely audible then, but going down to 600 rpm at a little over 70 W (with case fans at a tad under 500 rpm) is letting the noise fade into the background once again. (Most noise at 125 W is actually coming from the intake fans.) It is a soundproofed case sitting under the desk, and that helps, of course.

Now generally, listening to music imposes little load onto a computer and does not involve running Prime95 in Small FFTs mode in the background, so there is no reason why a reasonably efficient machine should not be able to run very quietly with the right fans and some fan curve tweaking. My machine generally takes about 15 W from the mains when idling, around 20 under light load and maybe 30 when watching YT, so that's really not a great deal of heat load to get rid of.

Also, unless you're buying a passively cooled laptop, it might end up being louder than a desktop. I had to bodge an undervolted (running from 5V USB) Scythe fan onto the stand that my work laptop (Thinkpad T14 Gen2) sits on to stop the internal fan spinning at high RPM...
Absolutely. The trend to thinner and thinner devices has not done acoustics any favors. If they had stayed as quiet as my old Dell Latitude E6520 or a pre-Optimus Thinkpad T510, with little more than the noise of air whooshing, it would have been acceptable, although that's still a bit more than I'd want to have right in front of me. The noise profile is much heavier on midrange and highs than what a PC under the desk will emit, which is disadvantageous in the light of human hearing sensitivity. We didn't go to fans as big as 120/140 mm for a reason.
(Mind you, my office PC only has 92s on the CPU and exhaust and is super quiet, too. The 92mm Noctua I put on there turned out to keep running at even lower speeds and is idling around 200 rpm, and I used the supplied silicone rubber nipples to decouple the exhaust fan, a basic BeQuiet Pure Wings 2 that makes in into the low 500s. That whole system idles at 18 W, so not much going on there either. Some bitumen mat and foam had previously been applied, too.)
 
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rwortman

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I would be very surprised to see a Noctua fan fail after only a year
As I said, they didn’t really fail, they just got a little noisier. The bearing clearances probably just opened up enough to cause a little rattling around in the bore. For several years it was doing double duty as a Roon server and running 24/7. No bearing is wear free. I don’t really understand all this insistence that fans can be fairly quiet. No fan is quieter than any fan. It’s a design choice and why most home audio gear has enoigh heat sinking to not require a fan. Manufacturers could reduce size, weight, and cost by putting a temperature controlled Noctua fan in the cases of their receivers and amps. They don’t, because fans can be heard and don’t last forever, audiophiles will bitch and sales will tank.
 

Abe_W

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As I said, they didn’t really fail, they just got a little noisier. The bearing clearances probably just opened up enough to cause a little rattling around in the bore. For several years it was doing double duty as a Roon server and running 24/7. No bearing is wear free. I don’t really understand all this insistence that fans can be fairly quiet. No fan is quieter than any fan. It’s a design choice and why most home audio gear has enoigh heat sinking to not require a fan. Manufacturers could reduce size, weight, and cost by putting a temperature controlled Noctua fan in the cases of their receivers and amps. They don’t, because fans can be heard and don’t last forever, audiophiles will bitch and sales will tank.
Heatsinks are usually never enough and surface mount components tend to fail right out of warranty on those receivers.
 
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rwortman

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Heatsinks are usually never enough and surface mount components tend to fail right out of warranty on those receivers.
Hmm. I have never had a failure of any kind on my Yamaha, Marantz, or Pioneer receivers. Which ones are “those receivers“?
 

Digby

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I don’t really understand all this insistence that fans can be fairly quiet. No fan is quieter than any fan. It’s a design choice and why most home audio gear has enoigh heat sinking to not require a fan.
It's because you're wrong on the internet. Do whatever you want, passive or not, but good fans (Noctua - indeed many fans now, even bundled ones) at sensible RPMs are essentially inaudible from relatively small distances. Fans help preserve equipment by removing excess heat efficiently.

If we were talking 20 years ago, you would have been right about fans (anyone remember what HDDs sounded like up until about 2010 - OMG, even worse!). Something about your experience does not tally with the current reality though. Probably you were running too many fans and not employing fan curves, but you've avoiding telling us about the noisy setup you had, that seems to have put you off fans forever.

Do what you want, but the insistence is because...


someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet-518x570.jpg
 

antcollinet

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It's because you're wrong on the internet. Do whatever you want, passive or not, but good fans (Noctua - indeed many fans now, even bundled ones) at sensible RPMs are essentially inaudible from relatively small distances. Fans help preserve equipment by removing excess heat efficiently.

If we were talking 20 years ago, you would have been right about fans (anyone remember what HDDs sounded like up until about 2010 - OMG, even worse!). Something about your experience does not tally with the current reality though. Probably you were running too many fans and not employing fan curves, but you've avoiding telling us about the noisy setup you had, that seems to have put you off fans forever.

Do what you want, but the insistence is because...


someone-is-wrong-on-the-internet-518x570.jpg
You do realise that cartoon is pointing the finger of ridcule at the person pictured on the computer, don't you? :p
 

Digby

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You do realise that cartoon is pointing the finger of ridcule at the person pictured on the computer, don't you? :p
Sure, the cartoonist got his inspiration from somewhere. The cartoon is older than this forum, so probably wherever users here posted before ASR existed ;)
 

Berwhale

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Word salad from the marketing department - doesn't say how it actually does work. It's not limited to hifi companies.

I'm no fan of marketing departments, but that page does explicitly state how the bearing works - it's a hydrodynamic bearing using magnetism to help ensure that the shaft stays centralized.

You could argue that the use a magnetic stabiliser is superfluous as the hydrodynamic pressure should be sufficient to keep the shaft centralized. I could speculate that the use of magnets allows the bearing to function over a wider range of rpms (I'm presuming the hydrodynamic pressure would vary as some function of rpm) which would be a good attribute for a variable speed fan used in a PC.

In any case, my comment was in response to another comment that inferred that Noctua fans contain sleeve bearings, which they do not.
 

Elitzur–Vaidman

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As I said, they didn’t really fail, they just got a little noisier. The bearing clearances probably just opened up enough to cause a little rattling around in the bore. For several years it was doing double duty as a Roon server and running 24/7. No bearing is wear free. I don’t really understand all this insistence that fans can be fairly quiet. No fan is quieter than any fan. It’s a design choice and why most home audio gear has enoigh heat sinking to not require a fan. Manufacturers could reduce size, weight, and cost by putting a temperature controlled Noctua fan in the cases of their receivers and amps. They don’t, because fans can be heard and don’t last forever, audiophiles will bitch and sales will tank.
Do you or anyone in your house smoke/vape? It's my understanding that fans in such environments will tend to become noisy and fail prematurely (my guess is due to some residue being deposited).
 
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