- Thread Starter
- #121
I doubt the the bearing is wear free. I know that my fans would go from nearly inaudible to audible and a new one would put the box back to nearly inaudible. They didn’t get loud, just louder.
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Fan-less silent PC
- Thread starter rwortman
- Start date
- Thread Starter
- #122
- Thread Starter
- #123
Now we’re just being asinine. I never said my PC was noisy. i said it wasn’t completely silent and it would get just s bit less so as the fans aged. That may not be your reality but it was mine. Manufacturers eschew fans in hi fi audio for reasons. These probably include the FACT that they are not always completely silent to all ears and they they have a lifespan shorter than the equipment. Almost every failed computer power supply I have encountered (usually a friend’s PC) had a frozen fan in it. The world where magic blades stir the air in absolute silence and $2 bearings last forever is a fantasy. If I ever build another high powered desktop PC, it will have quiet fans in it, properly controlled. For a media server they are not needed snd best left out if one can afford the more expensive cases.
The inference that if someone else’s experience doesn’t mirror yours, they must be incompetent is pretty common in here but but is grating nonetheless. I am bowing out of this thread.
Fine, but several people have said this is unusual, that quality fans get noisier over time. Are you not interested why this might be the case?
When was the last time you built one? The last time I had a desktop power supply where the fan spun constantly was probably over 13 years ago. Absolute silence isn't necessary, just inaudibility from wherever you're seated.
I didn't say you were incompetent, just that you were wrong about fans. I'm not the only one saying you're wrong. Components have improved massively in recent years in computers, compared to some time ago.
If you don't want to discuss fans, then say you don't care. It is OK to use passive cooling, but what you've said about fans and noise isn't correct or, no longer necessarily the case (though it was once true).
There is no need to take anything personally. People are usually just trying to be helpful, how that may come across in text on the web is difficult to know in advance.
- Thread Starter
- #125
OK, I couldn’t stay away. My experience is that all fans get noisier over time. In my job managing machines in a semiconductor plant, I stocked all kinds of cooling fans because they they failed and would cause expensive failures if not replaced. Fans don’t just have an axial bearing. The fan pushes air one way and the air pushes the fan the other way. Thus the fan has to have a thrust bearing of sorts. Perhaps this is what started making little noises in my Noctua fans. 4 fans bought over a period of 4 years that didn’t stay as quiet as they were when new. When I changed them they were still quieter than run of the mill muffin fans, but they weren’t near silent as when new.
All bearings, except levitation bearings, wear or age. Noctua says their‘s are “hydrodynamic”. That means there is fluid in the bearing. Fluids age and get contaminated. There is an industry developed around monitoring industrial bearing noise and vibration to predict failure. Some folks in here are insisting that the bearings in a $20 computer fan will run forever without failing or changing their noise or vibration in any detectable way. That’s not credible.
- Thread Starter
- #126
On this thread and in Amir’s silent PC thread, many of the comments where versions of, “that’s dumb/too expensive/overkill, all you really need is this cheap alternative that I swear you will never hear the fans”. When the original objective was to build a totally silent, fan free PC, none of that is “help”.
- Thread Starter
- #127
Final resting place in the two channel rack. From top to bottom: VPI Scout, currently with an AT VM740ML on it, Yamaha BD A1060 universal disk player, Mcintosh C49 Preamp, Behringer patch bay for patching things in and out for testing, Behringer FBQ3102HD for EQ’ing non streaming sources, Panamax M4315-Pro 8 outlet conditioner with ethernet card and 12v switching for outlets 7 and 8, ART USB interface for recording/ Grace Design internet radio, my new server that apparently really should be a used minicomputer or old laptop. The bottom shelf has an out of sight 8 port managed ethernet switch. Also hidden on the back of a shelf is a Raspberry Pi in a metal enclosure with a HifiBerry Spdif HAT on it running their Roon endpoint image. The power amp is a Rotel RB 1582 mk II that sits in the AV rack, doing double duty. Call it perverse but I wanted a server PC that looked like it belonged on a stereo rack. Now y’all can tell me how patch bays make no sense and analog EQ’s are useless.
The Panamax was an ebay find at $80. Every other one I saw that cheap had the $200+ ethernet card removed. This one had it. You register the MAC address at their web site and you can turn each outlet off and on individually with a phone app. I’ve used that function but not often. I do use the 12v triggered last outlet to power the EQ which has relay input-output bypass when it’s off. The Mac has multiple triggers which can be programmed to input selection so the EQ is only in the circuit for the inputs I set. The Grace radio is just an easy way to listen to streams Roon doesn’t support. The Mac says “passthru‘ on the display because my AVR is on and that 12v trigger, sent to the Mac, automatically selects the AVR inputs at unity gain. It’s expensive, though not stratospheric, but it is capable and very convenient to use.
The Panamax was an ebay find at $80. Every other one I saw that cheap had the $200+ ethernet card removed. This one had it. You register the MAC address at their web site and you can turn each outlet off and on individually with a phone app. I’ve used that function but not often. I do use the 12v triggered last outlet to power the EQ which has relay input-output bypass when it’s off. The Mac has multiple triggers which can be programmed to input selection so the EQ is only in the circuit for the inputs I set. The Grace radio is just an easy way to listen to streams Roon doesn’t support. The Mac says “passthru‘ on the display because my AVR is on and that 12v trigger, sent to the Mac, automatically selects the AVR inputs at unity gain. It’s expensive, though not stratospheric, but it is capable and very convenient to use.
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I dunno about forever, maybe ten years or so. Anyway, you seem to know plenty about fans, so won't argue with you about technical details. Not my strong point, I'm afraid.
It is sometimes difficult to get a clear meaning of what people want when they type things on the internet. Many times when they say they want silent, they just mean inaudible. Using truly silent cooling is expensive, so people try and be helpful offering inaudible cooling advice that is a fair bit cheaper. Of course, when someone wants truly silent cooling (which, I admit, is different from inaudible) then that advice misses the mark. It is probably natural to assume most people want to save money and/or want inaudible as opposed to truly silent. Sorry for the somewhat fruitless discussion about it. Who knows, maybe this information in this thread can help others in some way?
It does look nice and sleek, I have to admit. What turntable is that you have?
All that sounds great, but very complicated, to simplify it have you thought about....I jest, I jest
.- Thread Starter
- #129
First generation VPI Scout.
Just by way of an alternative:
Here is a fanless, totally silent streamer I built for around £130, including touch screen display.
Here is a fanless, totally silent streamer I built for around £130, including touch screen display.
- Thread Starter
- #131
Cool. What I made was a Roon server and NAS file sharing machine. I have an Rpi streamer but it’s not as cool looking as that one.
- Thread Starter
- #134
Complicated to set up but simple to use.
a stitch in time saves nine.
People can believe whatever they want, but the simple fact is that
(1) A computer does not have to be fanless to be silent. There are so many proof points about that claiming the contrary is silly. I have built completely silent computers for myself since 2005 or so. I kept each one between 3-6 years. Not one failure of a fain or any other component - if you buy quality parts (and that is the only reason building a PC is fun rather than buying stuff off the shelf that has the typical cost-cutting measures built in). And never ever any fan noise, sorry. Anyone that claims the contrary hasn't built their own computer and is just used to off-the-shelf stuff the Lenovos etc etc spit out.
(2) Noktua fans are super high quality - I even re-used one for two successive builds. Never made a squeak even during long video editing and compiling sessions. There is negligible mechanical stress on those things. Stick to environmental recommendations and don't worry. I once broke one by being an idiot and applying very high pressure air to it, making it spin waaaaay above its spec... and even than it simply did its job a bit less effectively, it was still silent but the CPU temp went higher than I liked.
(3) Anyone that used the terrible fans that Intel often includes with the CPU only has themselves to blame.
(4) and most importantly, just build the computer you like and -like audio gear- stop telling the world "yours is better" :-D
I am about to build my own one and you can bet I won't come here for approval :-D
(1) A computer does not have to be fanless to be silent. There are so many proof points about that claiming the contrary is silly. I have built completely silent computers for myself since 2005 or so. I kept each one between 3-6 years. Not one failure of a fain or any other component - if you buy quality parts (and that is the only reason building a PC is fun rather than buying stuff off the shelf that has the typical cost-cutting measures built in). And never ever any fan noise, sorry. Anyone that claims the contrary hasn't built their own computer and is just used to off-the-shelf stuff the Lenovos etc etc spit out.
(2) Noktua fans are super high quality - I even re-used one for two successive builds. Never made a squeak even during long video editing and compiling sessions. There is negligible mechanical stress on those things. Stick to environmental recommendations and don't worry. I once broke one by being an idiot and applying very high pressure air to it, making it spin waaaaay above its spec... and even than it simply did its job a bit less effectively, it was still silent but the CPU temp went higher than I liked.
(3) Anyone that used the terrible fans that Intel often includes with the CPU only has themselves to blame.
(4) and most importantly, just build the computer you like and -like audio gear- stop telling the world "yours is better" :-D
I am about to build my own one and you can bet I won't come here for approval :-D
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Elitzur–Vaidman
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Noctua fans are quiet, not silent. There's a small but appreciable difference between the two.
And there is something called over-engineering. Which can be fun. But unless lives are at stake, the illusion of achieving perfection stands in the way of practicality.
My fanless Benchmark DAC2HGC started to emit a high-pitched noise that bothered me immensely - while it was 10ft away from me and I was next to my silent workstation. Power supply kaputt. As if such noises could not happen in a fanless build... that's naive.
I have absolutely nothing against building a fanless PC with an awesome designer case. I over-engineer my personal builds too, because that means longer useful lifetime. But I know I don't need fanless even though I am absolutely noise allergic. A mouse's fart will wake me up at night.
But yeah, the title of the topic is "fan-less", and that is that.
Elitzur–Vaidman
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Coil whine is the bane of fanless electronics