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Explain to me what I'm hearing from 45W to 80W
- Thread starter simplywyn
- Start date
Galliardist
Major Contributor
You should be OK with the A90, I haven't checked the numbers. If for some reason you find your new amp acts a bit like the Denon at high volumes, at least I've suggested where to look.
I don't think we have discussed room size and your listening distance here... they can both have an effect. If you're well away from the speakers and listen loud, it makes a difference to the required power. Shouldn't matter with the new amp though!
I don't think we have discussed room size and your listening distance here... they can both have an effect. If you're well away from the speakers and listen loud, it makes a difference to the required power. Shouldn't matter with the new amp though!
- Thread Starter
- #363
Considering I can tell the difference getween 45W denon and 80W CA, I'm going to see if I can tell a difference with 500W
jsrtheta
Addicted to Fun and Learning
To say that the Krell sounds the same as the Denon. Even if we put aside the brand, a high-end pure Class A amp sounds the same as a budget Class AB....
(edited, I originally thought the Denon amp is Class D but its Class AB, my mistake). But then, its still a budget AB.
1 face palm is not enough....
Last edited:
Weeb Labs
Addicted to Fun and Learning
This conclusion is supported by the evidence. So long as neither amplifier exhibits an uneven frequency response, high noise floor, is malfunctioning or being driven to clipping, listeners will consistently fail to distinguish between them under controlled ABX conditions. I suggest that you have a look at the essential AES reading thread.To say that the Krell sounds the same as the Denon. Even if we put aside the brand, a high-end pure Class A amp sounds the same as a budget Class D....
1 face palm is not enough....
To say that the Krell sounds the same as the Denon. Even if we put aside the brand, a high-end pure Class A amp sounds the same as a budget Class D....
1 face palm is not enough....
What class D amp are you referring to?
I agree with you. The caveat is that the Denon will almost certainly be clipping at normal listening levels in a normal sized room.
But what are "normal" listening levels and what is a "normal" sized room? There are obviously huge variations in both, judging by posts here.
Why bother with these wimpy integrated amps in the first place?
Limited budget? At least for some people, probably even *most* people. But yeah, even with my budget, it's not something I would buy. But apparently some people do.
IMO most of these "integrated" amps are fairly expensive for the functionality they provide. Better ways to go than the marketing promise of "better" sound quality. Budget certainly comes into it but so many options these days....
- Thread Starter
- #374
Care to give some examples?
What, you can't find them? They're all over the place, depends where in the audiophilia hurt curve you are.
jsrtheta
Addicted to Fun and Learning
Yeah, I'm not sure why a power amp would be compared to an integrated. Kind of like comparing a sedan to a station wagon - one has parts and functions entirely missing from the other.
It's the same with many of these underpowered amps with "High current." They cost $650 in Canada for the Denon PMA-600NE and it's advertised as, "Advanced Ultra High Current Power." The manufacturers hype them up to make peeps believe they are buying something really high powered and the emagazines hype them too when it's simply another small amp. Look everywhere for this amp and it's 70W/ch with no mention of the impedance. The gullible and those that can't afford a real high current amp see this advertising and they think they are getting something really special for a lower price range. Just look at the prices at the Denon USA web page for the integrated amps where all of them are stated in 4R output with no mention of 8R output until one digs deeper into the specs.
- Thread Starter
- #378
It's the same with many of these underpowered amps with "High current." They cost $650 in Canada for the Denon PMA-600NE and it's advertised as, "Advanced Ultra High Current Power." The manufacturers hype them up to make peeps believe they are buying something really high powered and the emagazines hype them too when it's simply another small amp. Look everywhere for this amp and it's 70W/ch with no mention of the impedance. The gullible and those that can't afford a real high current amp see this advertising and they think they are getting something really special for a lower price range. Just look at the prices at the Denon USA web page for the integrated amps where all of them are stated in 4R output with no mention of 8R output until one digs deeper into the specs.
I wouldn't call it gullible, the Denon 600ne was all over every youtube reviewer's channel as one of the best bang for buck amplifiers out there (especially for LS50's which is what I bought them for). For someone who has no idea what 70W even sounds like (or hell, or what 8R or 4R even means), and being told everywhere that it's a great integrated amp repeatedly by forums, youtubers, and articles, I don't even see how a consumer can make a supposedly "smart decision".
Every review of the Denons had 4.5/5 stars not just from reviewers, but from all the people who bought them.
And even here, half of you think I'm a lunatic for hearing different amps and that I need to get brain surgery for even mentioning that amps sound differently.
Now this guy calls them whimpy...
To be honest on August 7th when I googled the Denon PMA-600NE and I saw the 70W/ch rating and because class AB amps are pretty much always rated into 8 Ohms (8R) I thought it was rated at 70W@8 Ohms/ch. That confused me and I made the mistake of saying they should sound the same. What Denon is doing by rating them at 4 Ohms is sneaky and devious if not misleading. Because I thought it was a 70W@8 Ohms/ch I thought it should sound the same as the Cambridge Audio CXA80. I was wrong and did not double check the facts thoroughly. The difference in power output explains the difference you heard in the bass output. You've been mislead by Denon and the sources that rate this Denon so highly. It's happened to me in the past decades ago when I was unaware of the situation and had little experience cutting through the fog of purchasing audio gear. It's not your fault you trusted multiple sources all stating the same high opinion of the Denon. You did what you are supposed to do in good faith.
- Thread Starter
- #380
Reason why I splurged on a buckeye 502mp… let’s go 500W and see the difference shall we
