Etymotic ER2 vs balanced armature

[Fraxo]

All of that said - ER4XR (no eq) simply sounds vastly better to me than the ER2SE so all the people "assuming" with measurement bs without trying - are depriving themselves of a (potential) true upgrade. Imo as a sound engineer, producer and music enthusiast - it's not even close how inferior the ER2SE's sound is from the mid range and above...

 

[Blank Verse]

I haven't heard any of their BA IEMs, but the ER2SE is fantastic. I haven't measured it, just listened to it. I am using it with the default tri-flange silicone tips, and I find that the bass is more than enough for me. The only thing that could be improved is the treble extension, I feel that depending on the source it lacks a little bit of air, but some people have commented on using the brown filters to open up the treble a little bit, so I am going to try that.

Is there a source for just the brown filters, or do I need to buy Etymotic's tuning kit? If so, it is quite disappointing, as I have no intention of using the red or orange filters at all, which are supposed to make the earphone even darker.

Compared to a great headphone like the HD-540 II, I feel the ER2SE has slighly less extension on the bass and somewhat less extension in the treble, plus the soundstage is like a night and day difference. The tonal balance is excellent, and details are good. I got this for $50 from Adorama last year, so it is probably the best audio buy ever for me.

 

[Marfes]

I haven't heard any of their BA IEMs, but the ER2SE is fantastic. I haven't measured it, just listened to it. I am using it with the default tri-flange silicone tips, and I find that the bass is more than enough for me. The only thing that could be improved is the treble extension, I feel that depending on the source it lacks a little bit of air, but some people have commented on using the brown filters to open up the treble a little bit, so I am going to try that.

Is there a source for just the brown filters, or do I need to buy Etymotic's tuning kit? If so, it is quite disappointing, as I have no intention of using the red or orange filters at all, which are supposed to make the earphone even darker.

Compared to a great headphone like the HD-540 II, I feel the ER2SE has slighly less extension on the bass and somewhat less extension in the treble, plus the soundstage is like a night and day difference. The tonal balance is excellent, and details are good. I got this for $50 from Adorama last year, so it is probably the best audio buy ever for me.

You'll have to get the variety kit, unfortunately. If you don't mind more brightness with the white ones, check out lucidaudio on ebay.

 

[Fraxo]

I feel that depending on the source it lacks a little bit of air, but some people have commented on using the brown filters to open up the treble a little bit, so I am going to try that.

I tried all filters and I don't think it will achieve what you're hoping it will.
The boost the filters provide is in a very unpleasant "peaky" area of the frequency response. I too was expecting some extra air just to brighten it up nicely but it won't really do that and changed the sound profile to something weird.

 

[Blank Verse]

I tried all filters and I don't think it will achieve what you're hoping it will.
The boost the filters provide is in a very unpleasant "peaky" area of the frequency response. I too was expecting some extra air just to brighten it up nicely but it won't really do that and changed the sound profile to something weird.

Thank you, that is interesting. Since I am getting different tips to experiment, I will also get the filters anyway and see if I find a combination of tips and filters which I prefer the most. As for right now, I am already ecstatic with the ER2SE, with a good source the treble is really missing very little (and this is compared to bright headphones like the HD540).

Did you try different combinations of filters and tips when you were doing this, or did you just try with the stock tri-flange tips?

 

[Blank Verse]

You'll have to get the variety kit, unfortunately. If you don't mind more brightness with the white ones, check out lucidaudio on ebay.

Yeah, thank you for the tip (pun not intended, but not avoided either). I saw those white filters by the same seller in Amazon, but I think that might be a bit too much, so I might as well get the kit anyway.

 

[Ambient384]

All of that said - ER4XR (no eq) simply sounds vastly better to me than the ER2SE so all the people "assuming" with measurement bs without trying - are depriving themselves of a (potential) true upgrade. Imo as a sound engineer, producer and music enthusiast - it's not even close how inferior the ER2SE's sound is from the mid range and above...

Noticed the ER2SE sounds off, The treble sounds really muted despite having same amount as the ER4SR. My ER3XR sounds way more detailed despite being darker than the 2SE & 4XR.

 

[Fraxo]

Thank you, that is interesting. Since I am getting different tips to experiment, I will also get the filters anyway and see if I find a combination of tips and filters which I prefer the most. As for right now, I am already ecstatic with the ER2SE, with a good source the treble is really missing very little (and this is compared to bright headphones like the HD540).

Did you try different combinations of filters and tips when you were doing this, or did you just try with the stock tri-flange tips?

I probably tried more tips than anyone, bought foamies from two brands, tried all silicone, 2/3 flange + 2 3rd party brands. I have a very sensitive hearing as an audio engineer and afrer trying - measurements confirmed. The treble boost are weird peaks enhancement and not a lush treble shelf. Since you'll try it yourself, tag me in your update once u try it

 

[Fraxo]

Noticed the ER2SE sounds off, The treble sounds really muted despite having same amount as the ER4SR. My ER3XR sounds way more detailed despite being darker than the 2SE & 4XR.

That would depend a lot on insertion depthbor possible sample variation. I mention that due to the fact for some reason you perceived the ER3XR as more detailed than the ER4XR which I didn't.

But yea, the ER2SE sounds "choked" on the treble compared to both ER3/4 variations. That's one of the best examples I got for a DD vs BA that can't be represented in measurements.

 

[Ata]

I dont think its deal breaker and that BA Etys suck, but lets not pretend they sound like Stax or high end planar like HE6 or Audeze LCD 24 which have ultra low distortion.

Are there any distortion measurements for Stax headphones, I have looked but not found so far. Also, would such measurements include the distortion of the high voltage amps, or is it possible to measure the headphones by themselves?

 

[Marfes]

I probably tried more tips than anyone, bought foamies from two brands, tried all silicone, 2/3 flange + 2 3rd party brands. I have a very sensitive hearing as an audio engineer and afrer trying - measurements confirmed. The treble boost are weird peaks enhancement and not a lush treble shelf. Since you'll try it yourself, tag me in your update once u try it

So what are your preferred iem and tips?

 

[Ambient384]

That would depend a lot on insertion depthbor possible sample variation. I mention that due to the fact for some reason you perceived the ER3XR as more detailed than the ER4XR which I didn't.

But yea, the ER2SE sounds "choked" on the treble compared to both ER3/4 variations. That's one of the best examples I got for a DD vs BA that can't be represented in measurements.

The ER3 are just a ER4PT revamp, Go look at any ER3SE vs ER4P they have same FR and respond the same way to a 75ohm adaptor. It just hold on untill I can get a ER4SR since the ER3XR has all the issues I hated with ER4PT.

 

[Ashimaru]

I have an ER3SE which I added with a 68 ohm impedance adapter to increase the treble. Comparing it with ER2SE, I feel ER2SE is better. The ER2SE sounds smoother, softer, cleaner, and the treble is more comfortable than the ER3SE + 68 ohms. I didn't push too much into the ear using the large triple flange when using the ER2SE, it would help open up the treble a bit and get rid of the muffled feeling.

 

[Blank Verse]

I probably tried more tips than anyone, bought foamies from two brands, tried all silicone, 2/3 flange + 2 3rd party brands. I have a very sensitive hearing as an audio engineer and afrer trying - measurements confirmed. The treble boost are weird peaks enhancement and not a lush treble shelf. Since you'll try it yourself, tag me in your update once u try it

Thank you for your impressions. When I get some time I will do some testing, but I doubt I can test as many combinations as you tested, nor that I dispose of the means to discern the diference between them as well as you seem to do.

 

[Fraxo]

So what are your preferred iem and tips?

By far the ER4XR with the original 3 flange Large tips modded. Which means cutting the last (largest) flange. Not the stem! Leave it the same length, just trim the largest flange around it.

Literally changed my perception of audio. Took me around 2-3 weeks to manage it, as I've had fit issues and had to sample all models. The ER4XR has a necessary bas shelf for my needs and I actually purchased two. Got them for a really good price on Ebay, it's my current end-game setup and I've tried numerous models over the years in all prices. The deep insertion is a game changer... Shallow insertions simply never acheived smooth sound for me, even at 900$+

 

[Fraxo]

Thank you for your impressions. When I get some time I will do some testing, but I doubt I can test as many combinations as you tested, nor that I dispose of the means to discern the diference between them as well as you seem to do.

I think it's important to remember some of it is up to taste, but much of the deep insertion's advantage is related to consistency. It canceles some ear resonances and allows you to truly jusge for yourself.

Unfortunately - people who don't try the ER4XR in person and think the ER2/SE/XR will give an idea (with eq or whatever) simply miss out on a completely different experience.
After all these years in the field, it was the most obvious example to how close measurements sound so different and how much more detail retrieval I get with the Ety BA (ER4/SR/XR) vs the DD (ER2SE/XR), but I'd never recommend the SR/SE models, as they lack bass imo, even for analytical listening - which is what I'm personally after.

 

[raif71]

 

[Blank Verse]

I think it's important to remember some of it is up to taste, but much of the deep insertion's advantage is related to consistency. It canceles some ear resonances and allows you to truly jusge for yourself.

Unfortunately - people who don't try the ER4XR in person and think the ER2/SE/XR will give an idea (with eq or whatever) simply miss out on a completely different experience.
After all these years in the field, it was the most obvious example to how close measurements sound so different and how much more detail retrieval I get with the Ety BA (ER4/SR/XR) vs the DD (ER2SE/XR), but I'd never recommend the SR/SE models, as they lack bass imo, even for analytical listening - which is what I'm personally after.

Thank you for talking about your experience. I have heard different opinions (people claiming the ER4XR is inferior to the ER4SR due to the excessive amount of bass taking away from the mids, for example). So I think you nailed it in the first sentence of your post ("some of it is up to taste").

After listening to the ER2SE for many hours now with the original tri-flange tips, I find them extremely well balanced (with a bass that can be impactful at times, even), although more bass light than most headphones. Also, the treble seems to have opened up a little bit, though I am not sure how much of it is placebo, as I am not a huge believer in burn-in.

I think for kicks I will order the ER4SR when they go on sale next, and see how they stack up. Despite your recommendation for the ER4XR, I seem to have a preference for more linear headphones, and I try to avoid too much bass. Maybe our tastes (or our ears) are different.

I do have the ER2XR which I got last year, but I haven't even tried them yet, as I have been too busy and enjoying the ER2SE.

 

[Fraxo]

Thank you for talking about your experience. I have heard different opinions (people claiming the ER4XR is inferior to the ER4SR due to the excessive amount of bass taking away from the mids, for example). So I think you nailed it in the first sentence of your post ("some of it is up to taste").

After listening to the ER2SE for many hours now with the original tri-flange tips, I find them extremely well balanced (with a bass that can be impactful at times, even), although more bass light than most headphones. Also, the treble seems to have opened up a little bit, though I am not sure how much of it is placebo, as I am not a huge believer in burn-in.

I think for kicks I will order the ER4SR when they go on sale next, and see how they stack up. Despite your recommendation for the ER4XR, I seem to have a preference for more linear headphones, and I try to avoid too much bass. Maybe our tastes (or our ears) are different.

I do have the ER2XR which I got last year, but I haven't even tried them yet, as I have been too busy and enjoying the ER2SE.

By all means try and update
You'd find the ER4XR\SR's treble to be more lively than the ER2SE\XR, you'd also find the ER2XR incredibly more bassy than the the ER2SE or ER4XR. I actually ER2XR it on car rides and flights due to the nature of outside world being more bassy, but rarely indoor.
The ER4XR rendered my ER2SE completely useless, and it's more detailed IMO and that subtle bass shelf on a BA doesn't add as much masking as it does on the ER2XR so I suggest you to make a distinction between them since it might be tempting to assume things about the ER4 from ER2 due to measurements, but only when you'll try it you'll hear what I'm talking about.

 

[Ambient384]

By all means try and update
You'd find the ER4XR\SR's treble to be more lively than the ER2SE\XR, you'd also find the ER2XR incredibly more bassy than the the ER2SE or ER4XR. I actually ER2XR it on car rides and flights due to the nature of outside world being more bassy, but rarely indoor.
The ER4XR rendered my ER2SE completely useless, and it's more detailed IMO and that subtle bass shelf on a BA doesn't add as much masking as it does on the ER2XR so I suggest you to make a distinction between them since it might be tempting to assume things about the ER4 from ER2 due to measurements, but only when you'll try it you'll hear what I'm talking about.

Yeah I noticed a 2db hump at 190Hz that not there on the ER4XR/ER3XR.