Entreq "signal grounding" Measurements

[Sal1950]

There's nothing snake oilish per se about an OS.

That's what the developer named it. I have nothing to do with it.

 

[Nightlord]

I'm firmly on amirm's side of testing things - and I think he can vouch for that if he still remembers me - as I've had a bit of a break from non-swedish (non-faktiskt.io) forums lately. What I would like to put into perspective here (for those that don't already have it, that is) is that I recently went to a Swedish Hifi-convension/show and in one of the rooms the retailer of, among other things, Entreq had a setup. I went there at a certain time as one of my hifi-friends was hired to have a music "tour". So, you know my bias about that.... and your have to trust me to be quite picky about sound - unfortunately. But...

... while I don't think the electronics did anything really wrong (I can probably find out what it was) and the expensive Scottish (not Linn!) speakers didn't really do that much wrong (that's a gold star for me, given I'm picky) besides being very expensive.... with someone picking great songs - the Entreq at least did not destroy the experience. So.... if they have good or bad effect..... they're still not bad enough to kick a system out of among the best of a show.

I would never buy it myself.... and I found myself together with the retailer after the show ( yes, I was still there and had dinner with them all) and we had a SEVERE cable discussion starting with me postulating to him "the ideal speaker cable already exists" and going on to tell him that what you can do is adapt it to severe conditions or other issues - but you can't make it better ("so don't advertise it as such"). In the end he felt he had to end it with hugging me, as if _I_ had the problem....

What I want to say with this post is that while I don't believe in Entreq, I don't think they make that much of a mess in your system..... and there's plenty of other B*S* out there.... Just to keep a sane perpective. I don't want Entreq in my system, but I'm not that sure I'd hear that it was worse if someone broke in and changed to it....

--

If I would find something to try or debunk - it would be Ansuz from Denmark.... they're on every show here with expensive cables and distrubutes and sporting "Tesla coil" technology to go with it.... I'm sorry, but I don't stick around in a room where they plug electical outlets with dud-plugs and claim it improves sound. Worse is... they seem to team up with some otherwise really good danish electronics and speaker brands.... (Not sure if there's any common owners, but one would ALMOST think so)....

 

[amirm]

I'm firmly on amirm's side of testing things - and I think he can vouch for that if he still remembers me

Of course I remember you. Welcome back! And I agree that Entreq has no negative audible effect.

 

[komhst]

Wow that manual is really well written!

Note. Since all our connectors are made of wood for eliminate all kind of stay volts, magnetis, e,t,c and the fact that is vary a lot on the width of RCA outlets, you need to take it gentlry when use our ​

Entreq Manual Groundbox RCA plugs.​

The best part of the manual is this:
"It will continue sound better and better the coming hours. After ca 24 hours you reach nearly full effect. You can not do a A-B test directly with connect / disconnect because it take some time before the drain start flow and also when disconnect some time before the stay voltages build up the magnetic fiels."



No comment!

 

[pedrob]

Is the concoction of materials in the box somehow supposed to draw any signal that is present into it? Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can explain how that works?

Boxes that have a wire connected to a General Power Outlet's earth probably have a better chance of working. Russ Andrews has a Plug in RF Plug In Router that can be used to ground the metal casework of your system. That could be worthwhile as is a similar idea to ground the metal frames of speaker drivers.

​

 

[amirm]

Is the concoction of materials in the box somehow supposed to draw any signal that is present into it? Perhaps someone more knowledgeable can explain how that works?

No one can explain it because it doesn't work.....

 

[Frank Dernie]

No one can explain it because it doesn't work.....

Well it does add noise...

 

[Joachim Herbert]

Dither by chance?

 

[Speedskater]

If the "grounding system" is connected to an RCA input that has a plastic insulating ring, then the "grounding system" can act as an interference antenna.

 

[Sal1950]

Cause ground loop hums ???

 

[escksu]

I just saw this thread. NEver heard of entreq and went googling... Interesting... These grounding boxes are trying to mimic whats a natural ground (as it our earth's ground with soil etc). I really don't see what kind of differences it makes.

 

[thulle]

I really don't see what kind of differences it makes.

About $5k - $20k less on your bank account.

 

[Keith Conroy]

Much of my career, such as it was, was to not take 'yes' OR 'no' for an answer, but to keep poking around till something interesting occurred.



What makes that leakage tester unique?

Ray Dunzl, I was just curious? What is or was your full career & background??

 

[AndreaT]

Hello everyone.

As some of you know, I signed up for making some measurements of the Entreq "signal grounding" box. If you don't know what that means, you are not alone . It is a type of device where you connect it to the ground or negative terminal of your audio signals and it is supposed to improve the fidelity of the system.

I was given a loan an Entreq Olympus Minimus for this testing by the company founder, "PO."

The box arrived a few weeks ago but have been too busy to test it until now. From the outside, it is a nicely made wooden box with a single terminal out back:

The box is very heavy so clearly filled with something substantial. I was not allowed to open the box so my evaluation is limited to measuring it.

I had thought of measuring a lot of things but once I got to it, the reality set in. The box has only one wire going to it, not two. That is, there is no return path for any electrical signal. Think of trying to test a battery with a light bulb but being allowed to only connect one terminal! Obviously nothing will happen whether the battery is good or bad. Same here.

So right there, we are in a very small domain of electrical circuits. Namely, an antenna. That is the only construct I can think of where a single wire is connected to a piece of electronics.

I went ahead and made some measurements. The purpose of the thread is to get feedback on ideas/feedback from folks on it as I like to give it a fair trial. Once we feel good about the data, I will then post it on WBF where folks are waiting for the information.

Wow…this is 3.5 times more expensive! It must be 3.5 times better than the phallic aluminum wand! The fact that these products have a market is a strong point against universal suffrage…or alternatively it shows the extreme generosity of our capitalist system: you have $ 3,600 of disposable income and you spend it on a completely useless, actually harmful to noise floor ugly box. Blessed is the cornucopia of wealth that allows these people to make money in spite of the absolute proof of their lack of judgment.

 

[RayDunzl]

Ray Dunzl, I was just curious? What is or was your full career & background??

Well, let's see:

I was a busboy at a snazzy dinner show kind of place, and pumped gas, and, well, that's all irrelevant.

Replaced Analog Telecom Central Offices with newfangled Digital Switches, then Internet Backbone switching (ATM) feeding Sonet nets, and long haul fiber Regenerator replacement with in-fiber Raman Amplification and dispersion correction.

NEC, WilTel, WorldCom, Nortel. All defunct except NEC.

 

[Frank Dernie]

The fact that these products have a market is a strong point against universal suffrage

It shows that the majority either had no aptitude for, or interest in, things technical at school (or went to school in a place where education was deliberately limited) so are ignorant and easily fooled.

A lot of things rely on keeping people uneducated not just Hi-Fi.

 

[JeremyFife]

Other than the bottom of the line, they run in thousands (especially if you get all the accessories with them like earthing wires and interconnects). The Entreq Olympus Minimus that I tested retails for $2,600 by itself.

Dear God (or preferred alternative)!

 

[Keith Conroy]

I'm firmly on amirm's side of testing things - and I think he can vouch for that if he still remembers me - as I've had a bit of a break from non-swedish (non-faktiskt.io) forums lately. What I would like to put into perspective here (for those that don't already have it, that is) is that I recently went to a Swedish Hifi-convension/show and in one of the rooms the retailer of, among other things, Entreq had a setup. I went there at a certain time as one of my hifi-friends was hired to have a music "tour". So, you know my bias about that.... and your have to trust me to be quite picky about sound - unfortunately. But...

... while I don't think the electronics did anything really wrong (I can probably find out what it was) and the expensive Scottish (not Linn!) speakers didn't really do that much wrong (that's a gold star for me, given I'm picky) besides being very expensive.... with someone picking great songs - the Entreq at least did not destroy the experience. So.... if they have good or bad effect..... they're still not bad enough to kick a system out of among the best of a show.

I would never buy it myself.... and I found myself together with the retailer after the show ( yes, I was still there and had dinner with them all) and we had a SEVERE cable discussion starting with me postulating to him "the ideal speaker cable already exists" and going on to tell him that what you can do is adapt it to severe conditions or other issues - but you can't make it better ("so don't advertise it as such"). In the end he felt he had to end it with hugging me, as if _I_ had the problem....

What I want to say with this post is that while I don't believe in Entreq, I don't think they make that much of a mess in your system..... and there's plenty of other B*S* out there.... Just to keep a sane perpective. I don't want Entreq in my system, but I'm not that sure I'd hear that it was worse if someone broke in and changed to it....

--

If I would find something to try or debunk - it would be Ansuz from Denmark.... they're on every show here with expensive cables and distrubutes and sporting "Tesla coil" technology to go with it.... I'm sorry, but I don't stick around in a room where they plug electical outlets with dud-plugs and claim it improves sound. Worse is... they seem to team up with some otherwise really good danish electronics and speaker brands.... (Not sure if there's any common owners, but one would ALMOST think so)....

You have spent some time on a well thought out reply to the Entreq. So it seems clear it does nothing bad?? However when you spend that kind of money you better expect a clear & measurable system improvement.....!! Or perhaps I'm missing something??? Its amazing to me the power of Product looks/Product technical buzz words/Golden Ear magazine reviews........Etc, Etc......Etc. This is really what the science of double blind testing is all about! It takes all the per-conceived notions and bias out of the equation. It always amazes me that the golden ear community fights tooth & nail related to double blind testing. If indeed you built or owned high end products that you felt sounded better. Why would you not jump at the chance to prove it through any audible testing????????????

 

[tomelex]

Well, let's see:

I was a busboy at a snazzy dinner show kind of place, and pumped gas, and, well, that's all irrelevant.

Replaced Analog Telecom Central Offices with newfangled Digital Switches, then Internet Backbone switching (ATM) feeding Sonet nets, and long haul fiber Regenerator replacement with in-fiber Raman Amplification and dispersion correction.

NEC, WilTel, WorldCom, Nortel. All defunct except NEC.

At one time had a piece of equipment (1950's) that used analog telecom switches, stepper switches etc for remote swapping between primary and standby navigation equipment, those steppers were a nightmare when they started acting up, with the spring tensioners and all that mechanical stuff, the diagram we referred to as the spaggetti diagram, it was hell trying to trace things out. And it also provided remote switching of the equipment and turning other things on and off etc. crazy stuff but needed long distance communication and AC tones travels longer over telephone wires. Crazy how companies disappear.

 

[Tranquility Bass]

No one can explain it because it doesn't work.....

Of course it works the same way as a bike dynamo and light connected with a single wire. It's magic