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Dynamic range - dumb question.

bennetng

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Providing a 30-second 96kbps AAC/opus sample for listeners themselves to evaluate the quality of a track is much more practical than any number.

In practice the industry just don't treat "DR" as a standard. If you need a standard, use something like BS.1770/R128. Not that it is completely reliable but at least it is commonly used in plugins and loudness normalization algorithms, and has psychoacoustic weighting curves, short/long term integration time and so on.
 
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Cbdb2

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Hi

"Soundwise", it's not possible to add DR or sound back into a track, but you can make the waves appear more dynamic.

You cannot master for Vinyl below DR9, otherwise the needle will jump out of the groove. Records have a dynamic range of anything from 9dB to 20dB, so the Phase Linear 1000 was just old-school snake oil.

An expander adds DR, its the oppossite of compression. Theres tape noise reduction ( DR increasing) hardware thats used pre compression, post expansion with very little distortion. The catch is that the attack and decay of the 2 have to be identical. So that single ended expander will only be right if it has the same attack and release as the original compressor. Very unlikely.
 

Cbdb2

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A lot of the thinking behind so many pop hits of the sixties and seventies.

Remember 45s? These where produced for the radio, often edited in lenght and mastered with more compression for listening in the car. With the present bandwidth why arent record companies releaseing multiple masters on the same disc. ( bluerays hold 50gig). I have a video game that lets you pick your soundtrack. Night, standard, studio mix, headphones. Each with its own DR. This would add very little mastering time.
 

watchnerd

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An expander adds DR, its the oppossite of compression. Theres tape noise reduction ( DR increasing) hardware thats used pre compression, post expansion with very little distortion. The catch is that the attack and decay of the 2 have to be identical. So that single ended expander will only be right if it has the same attack and release as the original compressor. Very unlikely.

Back in the last bit of technology develop in analog recording (Dolby HX Pro), the common term amongst recording engineers for the use of it was "stretched".
 

Sal1950

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The catch is that the attack and decay of the 2 have to be identical. So that single ended expander will only be right if it has the same attack and release as the original compressor. Very unlikely.
True but the PL 1000 and the 4000 pre-amp that also contained the circuit was fairly effective at adding back some impact to the dynamic peaks of the music along with the downward side removing some of the ugly vinyl surface noise. You set the expansion level via a LED, setting it to blink only on the loudest peaks of the music being played. For sure not an accurate mirror of the compression that was used, but a fairly useful toy to make vinyl a little bit more enjoyable to listen to.
 

L5730

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I've seen several articles about "the loudness war" and over use of compression and how low dynamic range ruins music, but looking at the dynamic range measurements of some of the music in my collection, I have some tracks/albums with nice high dymamic range measurements that sound very nice, however, there are also some that have very low measurements, that also sound good. How does that work?

There seems to be some meandering in this thread, but the answer seems to have appeared, even if it is a bit technical rather than poetic.
DR = a crest factor. Difference between a the bulk perceived loudness and the transients.
It tells you nothing about the tonality or clipping distortion (although could hint, along with the rest of the stats the DR meter generates). It's a blunt tool which had it's heart in the right place.
The 'live' version, a plugin that sits in your audio editing program (DAW) is arguably more useful for the engineers among us creating or engineering the material. Gives an idea of just how much transients are being squished (if there are any).

Things have mostly moved on now.
We tend to use Loudness standards (EBU-R128 / ITU-R BS.1770) which allow us to determine the light and shade and actual audibly perceived dynamics of the program material. Some weighted curves and various gating and window measurements form a set of results.
We could scan a track using loudness tools and get the integrated loudness (I-LUFS) which is a bit like a better version average VU of the entire track.
We'd get upper and lower threshold limits and a difference between these showing how loud and quiet those respective passages are - if they are very close and close to the Integrated value, you know it's going to be a fairly homogenous sound in terms of constant volume/loudness.
True Peak is also something that has been tagged with the loudness standards. In simple terms it just up-samples the audio, sees what new peak values are created from doing that and therefor gives an idea what would happen when the digital signal is converted to analogue. Digital audio is not a stair step, it's just samples in a continuous wave. That wave can go above 0 dBFS. True peak would show that, with values above 0 dBFS.

Note: I mention perceived loudness in relation to DR meter. It wasn't really accurate. It was just a weighted and gated RMS value.
Also note: VU meters of old showed music loudness in terms of Volume Units. This was a rudimentary way of showing momentary loudness of audio. Could be skewed easily with lots of bass energy, which we don't hear as all that loud, but the meters would be pegged. Likewise something loud and very bright, but without much bass energy wouldn't look so loud on a VU meter, but my goodness we'd know we had to turn the amp down!

"Classical" music typically has higher transient information, as well as a bigger loudness range (loud to quiet passages) than produced music. Studios use all manor of techniques to shape a sound, "classical" avoids all that, trying to be as pure a recording as possible. Generally speaking.
Grab a 'greatest hits' type of "classical" CD and see how much louder the tracks (movements, pieces) are compared to the source it was taken from, such as a CD of the full opera. In Mastering the CD for the general unwashed masses (of which I'll class myself one of) they bring the level up using dynamic compression and expansion and limiting, so that the listener doesn't have to crank their amp to hear the quiet bits. They'll also make a more consistent loudness between tracks, and maybe EQ some to make them seem like a more homogenous collection.
 

ferrellms

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There's lots of information about this matter on Archimago's Musings. Just search for "dynamic range" and/or "loudness war" etc.

Proper mastering (of a good recording) matters more than anything else; being closely followed by (your) room acoustics. :) Even lossy audio, like MP3, can be of no noticeable impact if at 320kbps constant bitrate or - even better - at V0 variable bitrate. The latter statement is true regarding most music productions but certainly does exclude some very complex recordings, like those that can be found in the 'classical music' genres. Everyone can simply very this, e.g., using foobar2000 with the ABX Comparator component installed [take a few of your preferred lossless files, convert them to MP3 at 320kbps or preferably V0, with nothing else changed, and enjoy the challenge].

Back to the loudness war... Some, i.m.o., interesting findings are:

MEASUREMENTS: Stealth Releases of Good Remastering in Hi-Res Audio... (Alanis Morissette!)
MUSINGS: Increasing the Dynamic Range of compressed audio with DSP... (And is this why vinyl DR is higher!?)

Enjoy the music - if you can! ^^
I use LAME encoding to compress (file size, not dynamic range!) WAV files ripped from CDs to MP3 at 320 and 192. No audible difference between the 3 results to my ears.
 

watchnerd

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I use LAME encoding to compress (file size, not dynamic range!) WAV files ripped from CDs to MP3 at 320 and 192. No audible difference between the 3 results to my ears.

I haven't bothered with converting and using LAME to make MP3 in a decade.

On the one hand, I ABXed myself and can't tell the difference between FLAC and best LAME 320K.

On the other hand, storage isn't an issue any more and why bother with the extra work needed?

It's 2020 -- I just leave everything as FLAC.
 

L5730

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Not meaning to be a gentleman-sausage, but why are lossy codecs being discussed?

This was a problem when the subject of (dynamic range) compression came up, and folks thought the subject was about data compression algorithms. But the topic was "dynamic range" and never mentioned compression at all.

Yes, storage is cheap. Less than £35 for 1TB internal HDD and that will store a lot of 16/44.1 and 24/96 FLAC audio. Heck, one could use LPCM WAV if they wanted to. Everyone should have multiple backups. A SATA<>USB 3.0 adaptor with a 12v PSU is around £15. No excuse not to have a couple of HDDs in plastic boxes with some silica gel packs in. Go burry one in your back yard, put a slab over it and hey presto, fireproof backup storage.
 

Sal1950

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I guess I must have missed something along the way but I have never used anything less than flac.
I never got involved in the mp3 downloading, mixtapes, itunes, and all that. My first crack at computer files was learning to rip CDs to the hard drive for the convenience but my main focus has always been on quality so it was right to lossless for me. I fell in love with computer audio instantly, it gave me the quality I demanded while not having to sacrifice anything. A win-win-win proposition. LOL
 

richard12511

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Sound quality and dynamic range are not the same thing. Some of the worst sounding recordings I know are also some of the most dynamic. Old classical/jazz often has huge dynamics, yet terrible sound quality(mikes distorting/clipping, loud hiss, feedback, terrible imaging, hard pans, etc.) Modern pop has very little dynamics, but is often well recorded with high quality equipment.
 
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