Dutch&Dutch 8C /Genelec 8351b and Amphion something or other.

[phantompowered]

What's this thing?:

View attachment 346455

These are two pieces of studio processing equipment in 19 inch rack format. The top one is an Avalon VT series channel strip with mono mic preamp, EQ and compressor. The unit below it is the very interesting Bettermaker Mastering Compressor, which is a VCA based stereo dynamics controller with a unique, software-based control interface and a whole bunch of very fancy features. The digital/software side of the system controls the analog compressor section and all of its additional tone shaping features. It lets you do instant saving of presets, recall of settings, parameter tweaking and automation recording from a GUI panel inside your digital audio workstation, but with all the sonic advantages of a high end hardware unit relative to a plugin/emulation.

 

[outfaced]

I only listened to the 8c and 8351b compared to the Neumann KH150 in a store for 2 hours or so. I found the 8c overall best, Genelec worst (because of the piercing treble) and Neumann good, but with a smaller soundstage than the 8c and overall a little less spectacular. But they weren't calibrated, i have no LP measurements and i am not a professional searching for tools, so my short experience is not really worth a lot to others.
I don't know if the treble thing is just subjective or being used to something (which one is correct - the "piercing" or "clear" or the "smooth" or "tinted"?).

My impression is ...
on the one side is the tweeter - D&D sounded for me definitely softer and more "silky", with less attack + a bit over saturated (focal like)
but on the other hand i found the transition form tweeter to mid better on genelec ... more homogeneous
then the general presentation of genelec is more forward.
Bass is difficult to judge, because very placement depended and nobody makes the hassle to find the best place in such compartment, but I found also the bass of D&D not so good defined ... plenty of it, but quality wise genelec was better.

For me both very enjoyable speakers, that i would be glad to have. But for now are the genelecs in my room
I had ATC before, that are again very smooth in the top end ... at some point i got bored. There is just more pop and live in the genelcs.

 

[Sacha]

The Amphion kind of looks the flattest besides the low end in those graphs doesn't it? Hard to say what is the speaker and what is the room / placement though.

 

[phoenixdogfan]

Dutch&Dutch 8C versus Genelec 8351B @Pearljam5000 View attachment 346441

Looks like you need a better center channel.

 

[Dgob]

Special thanks for posting FR graphs in addition to describing your experience.
I only listened to the 8c and 8351b compared to the Neumann KH150 in a store for 2 hours or so. I found the 8c overall best, Genelec worst (because of the piercing treble) and Neumann good, but with a smaller soundstage than the 8c and overall a little less spectacular. But they weren't calibrated, i have no LP measurements and i am not a professional searching for tools, so my short experience is not really worth a lot to others.
I don't know if the treble thing is just subjective or being used to something (which one is correct - the "piercing" or "clear" or the "smooth" or "tinted"?).

I believe that the Genelecs are most fitting of the title "high fidelity", because what you hear is what was recorded. That is without going into the impact of room acoustics etc.

However, no one can dismiss the importance of personal desires and expectations.

 

[Dgob]

As I implied, psychoacoustics are a fascinating factor:

Worthy of consideration.

 

[Dgob]

And then, of course, we have the areas that I believe are most fitting to this site:

Fascinating again

 

[Dgob]

Cool stuff! I just think there's no point in pairing 8361B with W371A, I use 8351B with W371A and right now the 8351B are playing only above 300Hz or so, changing them to 8361 wouldn't achieve anything (same midrange, tweeter and amps for these, the only difference is the size and woofer with amp but this is almost unused in this setup) and would actually made placement too compromised. W371A height is 110cm, this is a lot and I have to use 8351 on their side and angled downward even more than the rubber feet allow, I had to unscrew them to tilt the desired amount. 8341A on the other hand are smaller and less powerful so IMO 8351B is the perfect companion for W371A.

No, maybe you are confusing monitors. When comparing the common 8361A/7360A partnership to the 8361A/W371A, the latter is superior in every way. They really do become a single speaker with seamless and directional performance. This becomes even more important when the listening space is sonically challenging.

As far as placement is concerned, once you find the best (often near to front and side walls) placement for your 8361A's, you simply locate the W371A's beneath them in the same (possibly) corner spots. The rest will be down to GLM, SCP (or AI) and your listening preferences.

 

[AudioJester]

No, maybe you are confusing monitors. When comparing the common 8361A/7360A partnership to the 8361A/W371A, the latter is superior in every way. They really do become a single speaker with seamless and directional performance. This becomes even more important when the listening space is sonically challenging.

As far as placement is concerned, once you find the best (often near to front and side walls) placement for your 8361A's, you simply locate the W371A's beneath them in the same (possibly) corner spots. The rest will be down to GLM, SCP (or AI) and your listening preferences.

Err, why suddenly reply to a post thats almost 2 yrs old??
And you have not really read/understood what he was saying.

 

[Dgob]

Err, why suddenly reply to a post thats almost 2 yrs old??
And you have not really read/understood what he was saying.

Err, just saw it. As for the rest...

 

[AudioJester]

Err, just saw it. As for the rest...

Well keep looking, there are years worth of posts you can reply to on here...

By the way, even Genelec suggests the 8351b is a better match for the w371, if you understood the post. Not sure what that has to do with the 7360A

 

[Dgob]

Well keep looking, there are years worth of posts you can reply to on here...

By the way, even Genelec suggests the 8351b is a better match for the w371, if you understood the post. Not sure what that has to do with the 7360A

 

[Dgob]

On the Genelec suggestions for matching, I'd suggest you do a little more research. For example, I held that exact same conversation with Marcel Schechter (of Genelec) a couple of weeks ago. Our shared perspective greatly challenges your increasingly infrequent claim. I have no dog in your fight, as it were, as the concerns of my response seems to lie elsewhere.

 

[AudioJester]

On the Genelec suggestions for matching, I'd suggest you do a little more research. For example, I held that exact same conversation with Marcel Schechter (of Genelec) a couple of weeks ago. Our shared perspective greatly challenges your increasingly infrequent claim. I have no dog in your fight, as it were, as the concerns of my response seems to lie elsewhere.

Lol, we were talking about this on another thread. Like a lot of vendors -Genelec seem to tell people what they want to hear, with different responses to the same question.

I prefer the w371 (only demoed, dont own them), with my 8361a compared to 8351b. However, if aesthetics, fit in a home etc. the 8351b does make a compelling case.
Are you able to share measurements or explain why the 8361a/w371 > 8351b/w371?

Now the interesting dsp devolpment is dirac ART. My hypothesis is a couple of cheap none Genelec, but capable, subs colocated with 8361a and ART will possibly get close to a w371 system. Although ART is currently limited to 150Hz, while the w371 goes much higher while maintaining a point source effect.