Hello all,
The pictures Keith posted are from my studio space where the tests have been conducted. Here follows a review of the experience:
So I’ve been searching for something to improve upon or add to my current set of monitors which include: Genelec 8351A with 7360 Sub, Amphion Two18s with Amp700, Yamaha NS10M with Bryston 4B-ST - pretty (industry) standard studio fare.
To preface, back in 2018 I had already done a shootout of the Kii Audio Three vs Genelec 8351 vs ATC SCM45A Pro, and ended up opting for the Genelec system; however the Dutch & Dutch 8c have always piqued my interest and I just had to scratch that itch, which is why I got in contact with Keith @ Purite Audio.
My first experience with the D&D 8c was at a listening session held at Keith's. They were in set up in free space mode, on excellent Mesanovic decouplers and with no DSP on.
After acclimatising myself with a few reference tracks, my initial thoughts were that they were annoyingly amazing! The clarity, smoothness and soundstage of the 8c was seductive and evocative, triggering an immediate compulsion of wanting to listen to all of one's favourite records and repertoire all over again. I would have preferred that they weren't
that good so I could return contently to my existing setup, however that well-known audiophile sensation of discovering and hearing new things in material that you thought you knew intimately was in full effect.
There was now only one logical step - demo them in my own environment and shoot them out against my existing setup, so I contacted Keith the very next day and had them bought over and installed.
Due to the tight space on the desk bridge, the best option to compare the soundstage was to arrange the 8351 and 8c in a makeshift line array. (Putting the 8351s inside where the Amphions were may have skewed this test.)
Yes, we were aware of the fact that the cardioid apertures might not fully work on the side that was right up against the Two18s, however we decided to crack on with initial tests knowing that the Amphions could easily be removed later to reveal further improvementsw.
Firstly, the Genelecs were calibrated in its new position via GLM; then onto the 8c’s, which took slightly more time as REW was not communicating properly with them. In the end, we had to input the EQ filters manually via the Ascend app (only a few attenuations up to the Schroeder frequency of the room).
After some SPL level matching calibration and FR measurements (attached below), it was finally time to listen to them in situ and off we went with the reference playlist.
Obviously due to the placement & room treatment, the 8c’s did appear different than when they were at Keiths, but as the playlist rolled on, that seductive & emotive quality of the 8c’s became apparent again.
Switching to the Genelecs (via the Grace Audio m905 monitor controller that Keith was mightily impressed with), the soundstage was actually on par and since the 8351 & 7360 were re-calibrated via GLM, the low end did seem fuller & tighter.
Comparing to the Amphions, which uses SEAS tweeters like the 8c, there were actually some similarities in the smooth, slightly softer high end. This caused the 8351's tweeters to sound, in my own words “brittle" in comparison, however I will caveat that the Genelecs did sound off and phasey due to their new high position, and didn't seem to be performing in their best light.
Since having them for around a week, I've conducted more tests including:
- Positioning in free space for the cardioid apertures on the side to fully engage
- AES vs Analog feed
- With/without DSP engaged
- BACCH Plugin
- Linear vs Low latency mode
- Real-time tracking
- Working on real-world projects
- Delivering resulting audio/music to clients
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My conclusions are as follows:
The 8c’s
ARE remarkable (see what I did there GS fans), they are in fact astonishing and evocative to listen to music through… There is no BUT per se; I would happily purchase them for my listening room, end of. (The only slight downside would be that the DSP is a faff to set up and calibrate, especially when REW integration is not working or the firmware/app is experiencing issues).
My requirements though are for the studio environment and engineering side of music, where translation is the name of the game.
For this, I do prefer my current Genelec system along with the various other monitors in my arsenal: Amphion Two18, Yamaha NS-10M, Auratone 5c, Fostex 6301, so I can flick between these various ‘sonic lenses’.
To further this analogy; with the Genelec system, I have a clean surgical lens vs the 8c which feel like tinted designer glasses. The Amphions, which are unremarkable according to Keith, are exactly that! That’s their purpose; just as NS-10M bookshelves and 5c grot boxes are - they all have their place in the toolbox.
Incidentally, the upgrade route I am now considering is to move up to 8361s and possibly pair them with W371s which offer a fuller range cardioid dispersion, along with the excellent GLM system and seamless integration should I ever need to go surround/Atmos.
If you’ve made it this far, thank you for indulging in my audio babble and happy listening, whatever you have!
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TL;DR - One is a great for making music on; the other is great for consuming said music on.
P.S. Special thanks to Keith @ Purite Audio for his time, candour & knowledge. We had a great time geeking out over a few afternoons.