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Dr. Bose Model of the "Discipline of Acoustics"

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Rmar

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This is the Bose I know:

And as far as the 901s I agree with the consumer report in 1981, that Bose tried to sue them over, that said "they make individual instruments sound gigantic and the sound tended to wander around the room". And they will sound very different in different rooms, 80% of the sound comes out the back. If I want that Ill turn my speakers backwards.
This quote is a good example of an audio opinion trying to pass as informed judgment. We are a science-based data driven group and subjective opinions such as this we agree are neither valid nor significant. Especially the conclusion, which suggests the reviewer has a bias against new technology and/or struggles with anything out of his/her comfort zone.
 

GXAlan

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We are a science-based data driven group and subjective opinions such as this we agree are neither valid nor significant. Especially the conclusion, which suggests the reviewer has a bias against new technology and/or struggles with anything out of his/her comfort zone.

I am a bit more lenient, because subjective experience is still how we experience music.

I think the 901’s are unique in that we have in room measurements showing that it’s surprisingly good. Even the strongest anti Bose person should be able to imagine that it should work in some rooms (broken clock is correct twice a day). What I think remains unclear is how many rooms the Bose 901 actually works in. Is it 50% of them? 90%? 10%?

I think in the present day, 2024, science focused audiophiles who utilize tools like Dirac or PEQ and measurements who have ALSO tried the Bose 901 in their own homes come out being impressed with both the in-room measurements and subjective experience, especially when weighing in the relatively small size of the speaker for the prodigious bass output. That should say a lot.

What is less reliable are opinions from those who have never heard the 901 in the present day. Remembering vintage experience of the 901 may be subject to setup errors, recall bias, or mismatched volumes. Making assumptions of how something sounds when the majority of drivers are rear firing is also biased. You really do have to listen to it to experience it.

Modern systems like the Meyer Sound Ultra Reflex bring ultra high performance reflective audio with drivers firing against a wall, which happens to be today’s 250” Crystal LED direct-view type displays.


 

Cbdb2

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It would only work to turn it backwards if you have the oblique angles like the 901.

The details are much more interesting

“After careful consideration of Seligson's testimony and of his demeanor at trial, the Court finds that Seligson's testimony on this point is not credible.”

The problem was that Mr. Seligson was also trying to commercialize his own speaker at the time with its own patent so there was conflict of interest.

The other issue was that in the panel listening, the listeners were asked if the Bose 901 sounded close to their reference direct radiating speaker as opposed to asking which speaker they preferred.

Bose was asking Consumer Reports to clarify/retract Selinger’s statements, the magazine didn’t and they went to court.


“A portion of the evidence produced at trial concerned the disconnection of one of the drivers in one of CU's Bose 901 loudspeakers. The plaintiff argues that the defendant tampered with the loudspeaker in order to alter subsequent test results. The Court shares the plaintiff's concern that the evidence in this case may have been tampered with at some time. Nevertheless, the Court is satisfied that CU's Bose 901 loudspeakers were in proper working condition at the critical time — when they were tested in 1969 and 1970. The impedance measurements taken in 1969 confirm that all the drivers were functioning at that time. If someone did tamper with the loudspeaker at a subsequent time it would, of course, be reprehensible, but it would not affect the Court's analysis of the evidence.”

Even Selinger when testifying would admit that it didn’t really move around, but in the end, being wrong or mistaken does not necessarily entail actual malice and it was important to protect First Amendment rights.

This was not actually a unanimous Supreme Court decision. Dissenting were those who thought the facts did suggest malice. Sandra Day O’Connor, William Rehnquist, and Byron White.

If this had happened today, you probably would have Bose posting something on their website to counter the claims made in Consumer Reports, Internet sleuths would have discovered that the author at Consumer Reports was also trying to commercialize his own speaker. Back then, we didn’t have this kind of discussion forum or avenues for direct to consumer communication.

So, while the right decision was to protect First Amendment rights, it also not as egregious for Bose to have filed the lawsuit since I think today, people would not appreciate a reviewer having such an obvious conflict of interest.
What about sueing Thiel for using a .2 at the end of there speaker name?
 

GXAlan

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What about sueing Thiel for using a .2 at the end of there speaker name?

There is no actual lawsuit. Try to find the actual case if you can… there is none.

I also call audiophile BS / snake oil on this.


The official dossier shows nothing out of the ordinary. Possibly, Thiel’s own lawyers went to trademark the CS 2.2 and were told by U.S. Trademark office that there is a pre existing trademark and they opted to tell a good story since the audio press hates Bose.

If I know starting a car company called Ford will lead to a lawsuit from Ford, I can say that I changed the name of my car to avoid the threat of the lawsuit.

It just sounds better given the history of Bose/Consumer Union which as I point out was rightfully decided by the Supreme Court but also not as egregious given the conflict of interest which would not stand the test of the public opinion…
 
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Rmar

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I am a bit more lenient, because subjective experience is still how we experience music.

I think the 901’s are unique in that we have in room measurements showing that it’s surprisingly good. Even the strongest anti Bose person should be able to imagine that it should work in some rooms (broken clock is correct twice a day). What I think remains unclear is how many rooms the Bose 901 actually works in. Is it 50% of them? 90%? 10%?

I think in the present day, 2024, science focused audiophiles who utilize tools like Dirac or PEQ and measurements who have ALSO tried the Bose 901 in their own homes come out being impressed with both the in-room measurements and subjective experience, especially when weighing in the relatively small size of the speaker for the prodigious bass output. That should say a lot.

What is less reliable are opinions from those who have never heard the 901 in the present day. Remembering vintage experience of the 901 may be subject to setup errors, recall bias, or mismatched volumes. Making assumptions of how something sounds when the majority of drivers are rear firing is also biased. You really do have to listen to it to experience it.

Modern systems like the Meyer Sound Ultra Reflex bring ultra high performance reflective audio with drivers firing against a wall, which happens to be today’s 250” Crystal LED direct-view type displays.


 

dmilller

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I liked the 601. Probably never heard the 901 in the right room.

In that era I would take the relatively crude Klipsch over both.
 
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Rmar

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I remember the first time I saw the 601, with 2 larger drivers (not sure the size....maybe 8', with one facing upward, the other facing outward), and four high frequency drivers pointed very which way. It was so radical to anything else that was in a showroom at that time. Every other speaker was a box with a flat front with all the drivers pointing forward. Fast forward today, and you see the Bose influence on hundreds or more speaker models.
 
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Rmar

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This is the Bose I know:


And as far as the 901s I agree with the consumer report in 1981, that Bose tried to sue them over, that said "they make individual instruments sound gigantic and the sound tended to wander around the room". And they will sound very different in different rooms, 80% of the sound comes out the back. If I want that Ill turn my speakers backwards.
BTW....anyone considering having their hi-fi gear serviced at this place in the infomercial video above may want to get a second opinion before they do. They have a reputation of being "completely unethical" (not my words.... ) and not dealing honestly and fairly.
 
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Rmar

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This is the Bose I know:

And as far as the 901s I agree with the consumer report in 1981, that Bose tried to sue them over, that said "they make individual instruments sound gigantic and the sound tended to wander around the room". And they will sound very different in different rooms, 80% of the sound comes out the back. If I want that Ill turn my speakers backwards.
Sad to see a good discussion thread that starts out with interesting and rigorous mathematics of sound, then insights into the coursework at one of the world's renown universities – MIT, followed by excellent testing and results of a legendary speaker – all tainted because someone smeared a crap load of myths, mysteries, conspiracies all over the floor and didn’t both to clean it up.
 

Timcognito

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