Do I benefit from a dedicated headphone amp for the HD600 instead of the Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen?

[Flynnisalive]

Hi all,is

This is my first time posting here, so please excuse me if I sound a little lost. I also hope this issue is not already discussed extensively, I did my best to check but I feel like I have reached a brick wall.

I recently picked up the Sennheiser HD 600s for music production, especially mixing. I am driving it using the headphone amp in the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen. I am aware, that technically it only supports headphones up to 200 Ohms. Still, I was surprised to find that they get loud enough and I can comfortably listen to my mixes when turning the volume knob to around 60%.

That being said, I know that this setup is generally not recommended. Julian Krause recommended using higher impedance headphones with the Scarlett, however, I wonder how much the actual sound (instead of volume) would change when using a dedicated headphone amp.


Thank you so much for taking the time to read my question and for your help in advance!

 

[staticV3]

Hi @Flynnisalive! Welcome to ASR.

I recently picked up the Sennheiser HD 600s for music production, especially mixing. I am driving it using the headphone amp in the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen. I am aware, that technically it only supports headphones up to 200 Ohms.

Technically, the Focusrite Scarlett supports headphones up to a billion Ohms and more (not kidding).

Headphone Amps do not have upper Ohm limits.

200 Ohms is just something that Focusrite say to temper customer expectations.

This practice is unscientific, misleading, and frankly I don't like it.

Still, I was surprised to find that they get loud enough and I can comfortably listen to my mixes when turning the volume knob to around 60%.

That being said, I know that this setup is generally not recommended.

I don't see why this setup wouldn't be recommended. You may have misunderstood something.

The Scarlett 3rd gen's headphone Amp's big weakness is high distortion and crosstalk when used with low impedance (32Ω) headphones.

By using high impedance headphone like the HD600, you're avoiding this weakness altogether.

Julian Krause recommended using higher impedance headphones with the Scarlett

The HD600 is a higher impedance headphone, so all good there.

I wonder how much the actual sound (instead of volume) would change when using a dedicated headphone amp

Most likely, not at all.

 

[Flynnisalive]

Hi @Flynnisalive! Welcome to ASR.


Technically, the Focusrite Scarlett supports headphones up to a billion Ohms and more (not kidding).

Headphone Amps do not have upper Ohm limits.

200 Ohms is just something that Focusrite say to temper customer expectations.


I don't see why this setup wouldn't be recommended. You may have misunderstood something.


The HD600 is a higher impedance headphone, so all good there.


Most likely, not at all.

Wow, thank you so much for the quick and extensive reply!
Evidently, I must have misunderstood something. I thought higher impedance necessitates more power for driving a headphone pair (although that is sensitivity, right?). Since in practice, different frequencies require different amounts of power, I intuitively thought that that would lead to a potential skewing in the frequency output of the headphones. But I'm not going to lie, when writing this reply, I got confused and should probably open an old physics book again.

 

[staticV3]

Evidently, I must have misunderstood something. I thought higher impedance necessitates more power for driving a headphone pair (although that is sensitivity, right?).

Efficiency dictates how much power a headphone needs to produce SPL.

Sensitivity dictates how much voltage a headphone needs to produce SPL.

Impedance alone is not enough to predict either the power requirements, or the voltage requirements of a headphone.

Thanks to Ohm's law however, if you know two of these values, then you can calculate the third.

Since in practice, different frequencies require different amounts of power, I intuitively thought that that would lead to a potential skewing in the frequency output of the headphones.

Also not really how things work in practice.

If your Amp is too weak due to insufficient gain, then even with volume set to 100% everywhere, it'll play too quiet (but otherwise totally clean and neutral).

If instead your Amp is limited by voltage or current, then you'll get nasty distortion from hard clipping.

It's impossible for an underpowered Amp to result in clean, but tonally skewed playback.

 

[twsecrest]

Hi all,is

This is my first time posting here, so please excuse me if I sound a little lost. I also hope this issue is not already discussed extensively, I did my best to check but I feel like I have reached a brick wall.

I recently picked up the Sennheiser HD 600s for music production, especially mixing. I am driving it using the headphone amp in the Focusrite Scarlett 4i4 3rd Gen. I am aware, that technically it only supports headphones up to 200 Ohms. Still, I was surprised to find that they get loud enough and I can comfortably listen to my mixes when turning the volume knob to around 60%.

That being said, I know that this setup is generally not recommended. Julian Krause recommended using higher impedance headphones with the Scarlett, however, I wonder how much the actual sound (instead of volume) would change when using a dedicated headphone amp.


Thank you so much for taking the time to read my question and for your help in advance!

If the 4i4's headphone jack can decently drive the 300-Ohm HD600, with the volume knob at 60%, that would seem fine for audio production (creating, editing, etc).
But for audio enjoyment, a tube amplifier might bring a little more life into the HD600 headphones.
Like maybe budget $200 for a tube headphone amplifier?

 

[AnalogSteph]

1. My impression is that music production actually has the higher dynamic range requirements compared to music listening, especially nonclassical.
2. The entire interface is being closed out for $180 / €167 right now. Spending more on a headphone amp seems a tad out of proportion. If anything, I'd stick with the Sabaj A20h - JDS Labs Atom Amp+ / 2 - Schiit Magni - Topping L30 II class. Or consider selling the 3rd gen and upgrading to the 4th gen which has a substantially beefier output (over 5 dB more even into 300 ohms) alongside better converters, though there may be a slight regression in latency if memory serves.
3. Equipment sporting vacuum bulbs (particularly if those aren't just for decoration) has a tendency to be IEC Class I and cause ground loops with unbalanced connections.

The 3rd gen Scarlett headphone out is awfully mediocre (I really have to wonder who thought that a lone NJM8065 would be adequate), but as previously mentioned does fine driving relatively high impedance and relatively sensitive cans like HD600s, and likewise should serve as a decent source for a headphone amp.

As a rule of thumb, most normal people will be entirely happy with HD600s and similar cans when an output can deliver 2 Vrms (which with them translates to 108 dB SPL). Really loud listeners might want 3. The gen 3 Scarletts manage 1.5 and change. That's less than 3 dB off from 2 Vrms. For comparison, in the speaker world a common maximum peak level to be shooting for would be around 103 dB SPL.

 

[Pancreas]

aren't most sennheiser high impedance even the hd800 so why these people be using these tube amps and all lol

even Focusrite is probably enough to drive those headphones

the volume knob at 60% is already loud enough, yall want to fork up your ears and brain?

none of these people with tube amps (who don't even play guitar) are actually driving the tube amps, just like in guitar, to get the best tone from a tube amp, you need to drive them at high volume where it will literally blast the walls apart, at lower volume is a waste of money

So I don't understand why tube amps for headphones exist when you can't really benefit from them as in guitar, unless you blow your hearing, seems more like a gimmick tbh

For guitar, it makes sense, as you are using a speaker cabinet

Unless you use an attenuator which exist for guitar tube amps, I don't know if this exists for headphone tube amps, but it defeats the purpose of it anyway.

I think is more of a gimmick and fashion thing, it just looks cool to have those tubes sticking out, gives off the impression to the casual observer that you are serious music man not to be trifled with