Do Hypex Ncore amplifiers overheat?

[Bjorn]

Many thanks everyone.

My summary, as I understand it, is that there is no inherent flaw with Hypex Ncore modules.
This is caveated by the need to implement/assemble the module properly and (as with all amplifiers) to provide adequate thermal management.

As a layman (couldn't assemble one of these myself) I'm still stuck.
How do I tell which amplifiers have been competently assembled? What are the points to look for?
There are review comments here about "clean assembly" but nothing that I can see that explicitly says "this one won't overheat".
Customer and interweb reviews are interesting, but subjective.

When an experienced technician reports that amps have overheated due to inadequate assembly it gives me pause for thought. (I acknowledge small sample size and possibly a point to prove, but I don't doubt the findings in each individual case)

I'm not looking to be spoon fed, but what do I look for in order to assess a build as 'competent'. What should I see?

You could ask specficially for thermal measurements from the manufacturer. Any serious brand should have this. And if you are uncertain about the numbers/thermal images given, you can always ask competent people you know (i.e. restorer-john).

There's no way telling from the "track record" when products have only existed some years on the market. That doesn't say anything about how it will work in the long run. Some build for longegivity, some don't. Thermal measurements will reveal this.

 

[TonyJZX]

from what i've seen here the value leader (fwiw) is audiofonics

at this price level is there anyone offering more?

i mean people here are pretty sly in saying that some companies have less than optimal examples but i havent seen any that are truly abysmal? i make no comment of aliexpress specials.

then the question comes down to... are the Audiofonics NC whatever series showing any glaring faults? i dont think so

 

[mhardy6647]

Unlike the toaster, it should run cool.

Pretty sure that toasters operate in Class A. At least the good ones...

 

[NoMoFoNo]

I remember something about bended modules but I don't remember if it was about heat management.
You can see failed Hypex modules around,mostly in diyaudio who ask how to fix them themselves but it's not that frequent,they have an overall good record.

How many tons of broken Class AB amps are sitting in land fills?

The entire amplification paradigm is on the cusp of changing forever. I noted toasters above for a good reason. They are simple, cheap and when they break they never get repaired because the cost of repair would more than cover the cost of a new one.

As Hypex and Purifi get copied/cloned/ripped off, and as they feel pressure from the cheaper chip-amps that are improving rapidly, prices will drop like a rock. Sure, the HiFi fetishists will still be able to spend bigly on fancy and heavy case work, but modules-in-box are the future and will be commodified soon enough. The average buyer will be able to buy more great-sounding power than they could ever want for a couple hundred dollars or less. If that module fails five years from now, unscrew it and replace it for not-so-much money, OR throw it away like that toaster and get a new one, this time for an amount you don't really need to even think about.

40+ pounds? Hundreds or thousands of dollars? The need for 'technicians' for repair? Worrying about whether the thing will last until it becomes a burden for my kid to inherit? Thinking about these things misses the entire paradigm shift in amplification.

I'm currently listening to a $100 Fosi V3 and it has greatly impressed me. If I decide to sell it for a few bucks it'll be cheap to ship. If it breaks in three years I won't give it another thought. When I want to try something different, this thing fits in my hand and can be tucked away anywhere. The mere thought of dealing with some repair guy, or to ship a 40+ pound box, or whether it might outlast my wanting something different anyway, these concepts are outdated.

Oh, BTW, any posters convinced their kids are going to be excited to inherit your old, heavy HiFi gear that you worked so hard to keep tip top, you're kidding yourselves. Most of that gear will join the land fill (or be sold off cheap at a tag sale) two weeks after you're gone.

 

[NoMoFoNo]

Pretty sure that toasters operate in Class A. At least the good ones...

Love it when points are missed entirely...

 

[Deleted member 48726]

How many tons of broken Class AB amps are sitting in land fills?

The entire amplification paradigm is on the cusp of changing forever. I noted toasters above for a good reason. They are simple, cheap and when they break they never get repaired because the cost of repair would more than cover the cost of a new one.

As Hypex and Purifi get copied/cloned/ripped off, and as they feel pressure from the cheaper chip-amps that are improving rapidly, prices will drop like a rock. Sure, the HiFi fetishists will still be able to spend bigly on fancy and heavy case work, but modules-in-box are the future and will be commodified soon enough. The average buyer will be able to buy more great-sounding power than they could ever want for a couple hundred dollars or less. If that module fails five years from now, unscrew it and replace it for not-so-much money, OR throw it away like that toaster and get a new one, this time for an amount you don't really need to even think about.

40+ pounds? Hundreds or thousands of dollars? The need for 'technicians' for repair? Worrying about whether the thing will last until it becomes a burden for my kid to inherit? Thinking about these things misses the entire paradigm shift in amplification.

I'm currently listening to a $100 Fosi V3 and it has greatly impressed me. If I decide to sell it for a few bucks it'll be cheap to ship. If it breaks in three years I won't give it another thought. When I want to try something different, this thing fits in my hand and can be tucked away anywhere. The mere thought of dealing with some repair guy, or to ship a 40+ pound box, or whether it might outlast my wanting something different anyway, these concepts are outdated.

Oh, BTW, any posters convinced their kids are going to be excited to inherit your old, heavy HiFi gear that you worked so hard to keep tip top, you're kidding yourselves. Most of that gear will join the land fill (or be sold off cheap at a tag sale) two weeks after you're gone.

Just let it out, man. We are here for you when you need to vent.

 

[SuicideSquid]

Many thanks everyone.

My summary, as I understand it, is that there is no inherent flaw with Hypex Ncore modules.
This is caveated by the need to implement/assemble the module properly and (as with all amplifiers) to provide adequate thermal management.

As a layman (couldn't assemble one of these myself) I'm still stuck.
How do I tell which amplifiers have been competently assembled? What are the points to look for?
There are review comments here about "clean assembly" but nothing that I can see that explicitly says "this one won't overheat".
Customer and interweb reviews are interesting, but subjective.

When an experienced technician reports that amps have overheated due to inadequate assembly it gives me pause for thought. (I acknowledge small sample size and possibly a point to prove, but I don't doubt the findings in each individual case)

I'm not looking to be spoon fed, but what do I look for in order to assess a build as 'competent'. What should I see?

First, I would take the opinion of restorer_john on Class D amplifiers with a significant heaping of salt. He has some... unorthodox views.

I have a Buckeye Hypex NC252 6-channel amplifier and it works great - it's in a fairly enclosed space but I've had no issues with it overheating at all. Class D amps are more efficient than Class AB and SIGNIFICANTLY more efficient than Class A, so for any given power output a Class D will output less waste heat than an equivalent AB or A amplifier.

As for how to know if a design is sound... read reviews, I guess? Ensure the enclosure has slots for venting, and make sure you place it in a place that has some airflow - don't put it into an enclosed cabinet. As long as you've got an inch or so clear on the sides and a couple inches above, and the front isn't covered, you shouldn't have any issues unless something has gone very wrong.

 

[Davide]

I have an NC252MP and an NC502MP, which are probably worse from the point of view of thermal dissipation because they are more compact.
They are electronic device and obviously generate heat, but if adequately dissipated, as also recommended in the specification, the temperature reached is within tolerance limits.
It is wrong just to think that you take a D class module and wherever you put it, at any power, it stays cold... the heat simply needs to be managedz otherwise even the dumbest electronics will overheat.
Returning to the Hypex, if you think they feel cold during operation, no, this is not the case.
The modules also have a built-in temperature sensor and it's easy to see how high the FETs go (typically around 85°).

 

[Deleted member 48726]

You guys bashing John should really actually read what he has written instead of just getting the pitchforks out..

Post in thread 'Let's stop calling Class D amplifiers "efficient" when they are not.'
https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...fficient-when-they-are-not.48412/post-1735794

 

[Hollywood_Bob]

"As a layman (couldn't assemble one of these myself)"

You would be surprised how easy it is to assemble a hypex power amp.

The Hypex modules are only available (well, sort of) to OEM's who bolt the module inside a case and attach about 8 cables.

Done.

There are videos and text instructions on how to do it.

Hypex sells DIY kits for earlier versions of the Ucd modules, with everything needed to get it going.

You can also buy the cases with all the accessories, and the Hypex nCore modules, from China, on ebay.

The OEM's in the US and Britain and the Netherlands charge about $200 to $400 more than what you can get on ebay or from Audiophonics, supposedly because they are lovingly assembled with great care and attention by soft handed elves who care more about you than they do about themselves.

But there was a recent review of a Hypex amp on this forum where the OEM had assembled it so that the outlets were out of phase. How the F do you do that when the cables are colour coded? Some of the OEM's dont even use colour coded cables in their amps, so you will never know if what you get has been assembled correctly.

Some OEM's charge less than $50 for delivery, some well over $100.

Audiophonics sells a Hypex amp for about what you can buy the separate components from China on ebay, and about $200 - $400 cheaper than all the OEM's I have found.

With colour coded cables.

Why fight it? I'm waiting for Black Friday to see how Audiophonics cuts their already great price.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

I checked, it appears all of our elves have escaped our workshop. Dang it.

 

[mhardy6647]

Love it when points are missed entirely...

'twas a joke, son (or daughter, as the case might be).

 

[Hollywood_Bob]

I checked, it appears all of our elves have escaped our workshop. Dang it.

OK, but you wear the same leather half apron and sandals?

 

[Buckeye Amps]

OK, but you wear the same leather half apron and sandals?

No. Currently in some cozy pajama pants and a light hoodie as the weather has decided to turn cold quickly.

 

[Hollywood_Bob]

No. Currently in some cozy pajama pants and a light hoodie as the weather has decided to turn cold quickly.

To be fair to you, after looking at all the Hypex OEM's I can find on the internet, your Hypex amps show the greatest attention to detail, and thoughtfulness about what a customer would like to see in an amp. And very good prices and even low delivery costs. Quality of build and price puts you at the top of everything I have seen.

 

[fpitas]

Pretty sure that toasters operate in Class A. At least the good ones...

Just for that I'm introducing a class C toaster.

 

[Buckeye Amps]

Just for that I'm introducing a class C toaster.

What about a Bluetooth toaster?

 

[fpitas]

Oh, BTW, any posters convinced their kids are going to be excited to inherit your old, heavy HiFi gear that you worked so hard to keep tip top, you're kidding yourselves. Most of that gear will join the land fill (or be sold off cheap at a tag sale) two weeks after you're gone.

I'm thinking the Smithsonian might make a bid

 

[boXem]

I know certain people (“competitors”) like to take indirect shots at those who are trying to offer these amps at reasonable prices and infer this overlooks or compounds possible heating issues.

But track records speak for themselves. And I can count on one hand the number of modules replaced over the last three years.

What is the maximum temperature reached by the power supply capacitors in your basic NC252MP amp?

 

[mhardy6647]

Just for that I'm introducing a class C toaster.

I think most class C amps could be used as toasters...

I have to say, given the comment I elicited from someone earlier, I did start to think about single-ended vs. push-pull toasters, but I decided not to go there.
I guess I'll also mention that, to the best of my knowledge, all microwave ovens, to this day, use vacuum tubes (magnetrons) -- for that extra degree of subjectively satisfying warmth, to be sure...

OK, I'll stop.

Actually, on topic, I'll say this: DO [whatever kind of] amplifiers overheat? is a really odd question, and the comment posted invoking the Honda engine (is that the "Earth Dreams" 4-cyl Mrs. H's CR-V has?) was spot-on, methinks in this regard.
CAN [whatever kind of amplifiers] overheat? is more to the point, I'd think. Too much dissipation with too little heat sinking and/or cooling airflow is a recipe for a life that would be nasty, brutish, and short even for a "high efficiency" Class D amplifier gizmo. History is littered with the corpses of subwoofer amps (of various operational classes) that suffered needlessly from -- well -- a poor understanding of (or insufficient deference to) the harsh goddess that is thermodynamics.

I do think it's amusing that the best way to make a (ahem) cheap little Class D amp module (work with me here... I'm goin' someplace with this) perform its best is to add the expense, mass, and bulk of a big ol' chassis and/or heat sinking. Actually, it sounds perfect for audiophiles -- and it would (or at least should) assuage their embarrassment about (finally) embracing Class D amplification.