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For real world scenario (music playing loud for about 1hr)?
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Do Hypex Ncore amplifiers overheat?
- Thread starter JeremyFife
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Sokel
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I really don't get the argument as long as there are numbers around.
One can see them around and they are different if the PSU is integrated or if it's just an amp module of it's own with separate PSU.
I'll give two examples,one is my bigger amp (who drives my woofers and it has it's PSU built-in ) and the other is my smaller one (who drives mid-highs and has separate PSU)
Have a look at the dissipated power:
bigger one
smaller one
On top of that,the specific amp (the first one) seems to need different thermal solution with different mains (120V vs 240V)
All of this must be taken into consideration,but as long as the numbers exist it shouldn't be so hard.
Edit:We even have the formula to calculate it at hand:
(source)
One can see them around and they are different if the PSU is integrated or if it's just an amp module of it's own with separate PSU.
I'll give two examples,one is my bigger amp (who drives my woofers and it has it's PSU built-in ) and the other is my smaller one (who drives mid-highs and has separate PSU)
Have a look at the dissipated power:
bigger one
smaller one
On top of that,the specific amp (the first one) seems to need different thermal solution with different mains (120V vs 240V)
All of this must be taken into consideration,but as long as the numbers exist it shouldn't be so hard.
Edit:We even have the formula to calculate it at hand:
(source)
Last edited:
To be fair the current state of amplifier stress test review is like the early 2000s where people will use the computer PSU that came with the casing and the reviews read like "It works".
PSU running on 120V has lower efficiency compared to 240V, this behavior is almost nearly universal.
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Or, one could follow the approach of industry mammoth Fosi and couple an expensive aluminum heat slab to the external case and add venting holes.
$100 for the V3 with 48V power supply. Some call these amps 'jokes' or 'toys'. I call them the future.
drewdawg999
Active Member
I'm using a March P502, 500 watts into little demanding Maggies makes a beautiful combination. It actually gets pretty loud, peaks around 90dB. Gets a little warm but that's it, nothing compared to a tube amp. It's been a couple years of pretty demanding usage and I've never had any problems. I was told there's no audible difference between Hypex and Purifi so I have no desire to upgrade or lose 75 watts. Hypex Ncore is some kind of audiophile sweet spot that delivers on value and performance. If the P502 breaks I'd replace it with the corresponding NC502MP model at Audiophonics.
D
Deleted member 48726
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Mammoth? -The extinct animal.
You are really hyping the black and white / them and us mentality. Why is that? There are use cases where these chip amps simply don't cut it. There are use cases where they are fine.
But chip amps are off-topic as this thread is about the potentially overheating hypex-ncore amps. If you want to discuss chip amps and why you think they are the future you should start a thread about that.
Credit where due the TPA3255 has a quiscent of like <5W
But at a maximum heat dissipation of 90W worst case, I am curious how molten capacitors look like if someone attempted that in that chassis without any forced air ventilation.
But at a maximum heat dissipation of 90W worst case, I am curious how molten capacitors look like if someone attempted that in that chassis without any forced air ventilation.
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Industry mammoth? LOL. Expensive aluminium? Now I know you are joking.
OP
JeremyFife
Addicted to Fun and Learning
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Thanks both for contributing. It's a great endorsement for your Amps!
The issue, as reported, is internal temperature at idle - not just in use. Specifically the internal temperature of components not rated for higher temperatures. The assumption, as I understand it, is that thermal management of the output stages is generally looked after but that other parts of the board are not.
Do you have measurements for that?
I'm trying to understand what has been reported, is it actually an issue, even theoretically
restorer-john
Grand Contributor
Hypex done right and kept cool will have a reasonable life. There are too many components on an NC-252MP (@boXem 's example), which run hot especially when the entire unit is placed in a poorly ventilated steel case it will overheat.
I can't measure the temps of the 252s I have here because they are all dead. I've pretty much given up trying to repair these things as the information/schematics are not forthcoming from Hypex. You have to ask yourself if you want to buy into that ecosystem*. I sure don't.
* not much "eco" about throwing out entire two channel amplifiers and PSU modules is there?
The ratings are not optional. The operating temperature of the Hypex modules is 65 degrees maximum operating temp.
That doesn't mean the air temperature in your room- that means the long term environment inside the casework. The output filters run very hot at idle as do the SMPS transformers, the primary side switchers, the secondary side and so do the filter caps. The air inside the casework rapidly exceeds the maximum operating temperature. My thread showed plenty of thermal images. I mean seriously, an NC-500 output filter sitting at 167 degrees F (74.9C) doing nothing- just turned on, is ridiculous. How do you think the capacitors sitting alongside will fare long term?
Thermal:
Visible:
The 252mp module overtemperature will trip at just 85 degrees.
Not remotely difficult to get there if you play load music on a hot day with a poorly implemented thermal design. As for squeezing multiple units into a single case with no fans, no actual heatsinks and a mild steel construction like some use, I don't know what to say.
Without forced air cooling on the heat producing parts, the life of the amplifiers will be measured in single digit years. Is that good enough for you? If it is, you pays your money and you takes your choice.
I can't measure the temps of the 252s I have here because they are all dead. I've pretty much given up trying to repair these things as the information/schematics are not forthcoming from Hypex. You have to ask yourself if you want to buy into that ecosystem*. I sure don't.
* not much "eco" about throwing out entire two channel amplifiers and PSU modules is there?
The ratings are not optional. The operating temperature of the Hypex modules is 65 degrees maximum operating temp.
That doesn't mean the air temperature in your room- that means the long term environment inside the casework. The output filters run very hot at idle as do the SMPS transformers, the primary side switchers, the secondary side and so do the filter caps. The air inside the casework rapidly exceeds the maximum operating temperature. My thread showed plenty of thermal images. I mean seriously, an NC-500 output filter sitting at 167 degrees F (74.9C) doing nothing- just turned on, is ridiculous. How do you think the capacitors sitting alongside will fare long term?
Thermal:
Visible:
The 252mp module overtemperature will trip at just 85 degrees.
Not remotely difficult to get there if you play load music on a hot day with a poorly implemented thermal design. As for squeezing multiple units into a single case with no fans, no actual heatsinks and a mild steel construction like some use, I don't know what to say.
Without forced air cooling on the heat producing parts, the life of the amplifiers will be measured in single digit years. Is that good enough for you? If it is, you pays your money and you takes your choice.
CTA2034 with peaks at the onset of clipping during 30 mn will be a good start.
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Will do
Took a while but I see you got there...
Uh-huh.
D
Deleted member 48726
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What was wrong with my comment? Chip amps are not the topic.
I still have my first generation NCore NC400 amp (dual mono, separate power supply for each channel, etc. ) and it runs pretty cool, and has been completely reliable for a very long time. It’s at least fifteen years old (don’t recall exactly when Ncore came out) and I use it quite a bit. The guy who assembled it used a case with lots of room, heat sinks on the case and separate little heat sinks on the PS but I don’t think the additional heat sinks are necessary. He used the ones commonly used to cool computer CPU’s, cheap little heat sinks available on Amazon. I was going to use one of those inexpensive USB powered laptop fans but it’s not necessary. I use the laptop fans on the two Klipsch Powergate streamers I use in my office and workout room. The Powergate runs much hotter than my Ncore.
Previous amp was a Coda Class A/B and an Aragon 4004. You could fry bacon on the Aragon biased to class A, probably make a nice Panini on it as well. I never did it but the Aragon let out its magic smoke before I could find out. Had it repaired and sold it for slightly less than the cost of the repairs. Don’t miss that amp. Love the Ncore.
Previous amp was a Coda Class A/B and an Aragon 4004. You could fry bacon on the Aragon biased to class A, probably make a nice Panini on it as well. I never did it but the Aragon let out its magic smoke before I could find out. Had it repaired and sold it for slightly less than the cost of the repairs. Don’t miss that amp. Love the Ncore.
mhardy6647
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OP
JeremyFife
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Update
I asked Audiofonics what the T(amb) - ambient operating temperature - is for their Stereo Ncore NC252MP at idle (powered on, not in stand-by, not playing music).
They said 45 Degrees Centigrade and stable at that temperature, i.e. not rising with time.
Safely below the data sheet maximum (65 Deg). I realise that they have two case options, a newer larger case with more airspace, so I assume that this is for the newer product.
I asked Audiofonics what the T(amb) - ambient operating temperature - is for their Stereo Ncore NC252MP at idle (powered on, not in stand-by, not playing music).
They said 45 Degrees Centigrade and stable at that temperature, i.e. not rising with time.
Safely below the data sheet maximum (65 Deg). I realise that they have two case options, a newer larger case with more airspace, so I assume that this is for the newer product.
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I was asked to measure the max temp of my 2ch NC252MP build after 30mn of severe stress testing.
The PS capacitors (as asked) reached a max temp of 41C.
I also went a step further and placed the amp, during stress testing, on a shelf that has one of my reptile tanks both above and below the amp, so the ambient air temp was close to 80F.
No active cooling. Cover was on.
The PS capacitors (as asked) reached a max temp of 41C.
I also went a step further and placed the amp, during stress testing, on a shelf that has one of my reptile tanks both above and below the amp, so the ambient air temp was close to 80F.
No active cooling. Cover was on.
