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Do Hypex Ncore amplifiers overheat?

JeremyFife

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Hi,
I have read a few posts here - mostly @restorer-john - asserting that, by design, Hypex Ncore boards overheat AT IDLE (not even in high volume use)
i.e. that the design is flawed and these amps are likely to fail.

Solutions seem to be; vintage or more traditional AB amps (expensive, or risky if older), Hypex NCx or Purifi (expensive).

I asked Audiophonics (manufacturer, and likely source of my next amp) if they had experienced this or if they took this into account, with thermal management, when assembling their amps.
They said they have not seen this as an issue.

What's the thinking here, is there an inherent problem with these amps?
 

MaxwellsEq

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Hi,
I have read a few posts here - mostly @restorer-john - asserting that, by design, Hypex Ncore boards overheat AT IDLE (not even in high volume use)
i.e. that the design is flawed and these amps are likely to fail.

Solutions seem to be; vintage or more traditional AB amps (expensive, or risky if older), Hypex NCx or Purifi (expensive).

I asked Audiophonics (manufacturer, and likely source of my next amp) if they had experienced this or if they took this into account, with thermal management, when assembling their amps.
They said they have not seen this as an issue.

What's the thinking here, is there an inherent problem with these amps?
Post in thread 'Various Hypex NCx500 amp builds' https://audiosciencereview.com/foru...us-hypex-ncx500-amp-builds.47491/post-1722578
 

MaxwellsEq

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So the point @boXem makes is that the case is important. There are stories about cooking a chicken with a 60W bulb inside a very well insulated box.

These Class D modules are usually built with a heat spreader bonded to a case. In some instances the cases have little ventilation. In many ways this may be adequate. Class A and A/B amplifiers use large heatsinks and vent holes. Professional amplifiers use fans. If you built a Class D amp with big heatsinks and vents and even fans, they would overheat far less than an equivalent Class A/B amp in the same box .
 

boXem

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What's the thinking here, is there an inherent problem with these amps?
The inherent problem with these amps is that people consider that they are all the same and just look at the price. This leads to a race to the bottom during which thermal considerations are completely overlooked.
 

fpitas

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These overheating conversations tend to get a little overheated.
 

MKR

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I had some demo active speakers for several months in my home using Hypex Fusion plate amps and I can tell you I drove them HARD. While the fans would come on at times, they were solid as a rock, never any issue with overheating. Was very impressed. Just my experience, YMMV.
 

fpitas

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Not to make too fine a point of it, but some people here who hate class D go a little far with these accusations. Obviously, you do have to place the modules in the enclosure correctly.
 
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Guddu

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Not to make too fine a point of it here, but some people here who hate class D go a little far with these accusations. Obviously, you do have to place the modules in the enclosure correctly.
Compromises with case/fitting aren’t uncommon for lower overall cost. After all many just compare products prices for installed modules only.
 

TonyJZX

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if hypex had an particular reliability issues you'd have already heard about it.. and quite vocally
 

Bjorn

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Thermal image of Vera Audio P400/1000 after 2 hours of continual delivery of 800W power.

VA P400_1000 temperature.png


With this amplifier, the module will never get hotter than 65 degrees regardless of load and ambient temperature.
 

fpitas

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Compromises with case/fitting aren’t uncommon for lower overall cost. After all many just compare products prices for installed modules only.
Sure, you can screw it up. But we have several competent assembly companies right here.
 

NoMoFoNo

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Hi,
I have read a few posts here - mostly @restorer-john - asserting that, by design, Hypex Ncore boards overheat AT IDLE (not even in high volume use)
i.e. that the design is flawed and these amps are likely to fail.

Solutions seem to be; vintage or more traditional AB amps (expensive, or risky if older), Hypex NCx or Purifi (expensive).

I asked Audiophonics (manufacturer, and likely source of my next amp) if they had experienced this or if they took this into account, with thermal management, when assembling their amps.
They said they have not seen this as an issue.

What's the thinking here, is there an inherent problem with these amps?
Yes, proper amplification involves massive energy draw, jewelry-grade metal machining, very heavy boxes, preferred manufacture before 1985, and it requires roughly the same maintenance effort as an MG Midget.

Or, one could consider joining the 21st century wherein buying an amplifier will become akin to picking up a toaster, which is to say easy, small, inexpensive, well-performing.
 

quattro98

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Yes, proper amplification involves massive energy draw, jewelry-grade metal machining, very heavy boxes, preferred manufacture before 1985, and it requires roughly the same maintenance effort as an MG Midget.

Or, one could consider joining the 21st century wherein buying an amplifier will become akin to picking up a toaster, which is to say easy, small, inexpensive, well-performing.

Unlike the toaster, it should run cool.
 
OP
JeremyFife

JeremyFife

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Many thanks everyone.

My summary, as I understand it, is that there is no inherent flaw with Hypex Ncore modules.
This is caveated by the need to implement/assemble the module properly and (as with all amplifiers) to provide adequate thermal management.

As a layman (couldn't assemble one of these myself) I'm still stuck.
How do I tell which amplifiers have been competently assembled? What are the points to look for?
There are review comments here about "clean assembly" but nothing that I can see that explicitly says "this one won't overheat".
Customer and interweb reviews are interesting, but subjective.

When an experienced technician reports that amps have overheated due to inadequate assembly it gives me pause for thought. (I acknowledge small sample size and possibly a point to prove, but I don't doubt the findings in each individual case)

I'm not looking to be spoon fed, but what do I look for in order to assess a build as 'competent'. What should I see?
 

Sokel

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(to all)
you know that thermals have their own metrics and can be measured,right?
It's not like it's some ethereal,mysterious,unknown power.

Every decent heatshink provides those in their spreadsheet and every manufacturer/assembler/whatever must know what's the story with their cases.

On top of that,some of the modules provide that in their test conditions or warn about the right way.
 

Sokel

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if hypex had an particular reliability issues you'd have already heard about it.. and quite vocally
I remember something about bended modules but I don't remember if it was about heat management.
You can see failed Hypex modules around,mostly in diyaudio who ask how to fix them themselves but it's not that frequent,they have an overall good record.
 

wwenze

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That's like asking if a 2.4L Honda engine overheats

Like, what? There's so many other things to know first that this question isn't even valid.

It's the job of the system integrator to make sure it doesn't overheat, since Hypex has already included enough guidance and the product is already appropriately-equipped for connecting to a bigger heatsink. Though I should say that several end-products' (i.e. amplifier sold by websites that use Hypex modules inside) ability to do sustained max power load is suspect. And the last time I brought this up I was countered by the argument that people buy 3000W amps to use at 200W or something like that, for which I have no comeback for.
 

Buckeye Amps

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I know certain people (“competitors”) like to take indirect shots at those who are trying to offer these amps at reasonable prices and infer this overlooks or compounds possible heating issues.

But track records speak for themselves. And I can count on one hand the number of modules replaced over the last three years.
 

wwenze

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Many thanks everyone.

My summary, as I understand it, is that there is no inherent flaw with Hypex Ncore modules.
This is caveated by the need to implement/assemble the module properly and (as with all amplifiers) to provide adequate thermal management.

As a layman (couldn't assemble one of these myself) I'm still stuck.
How do I tell which amplifiers have been competently assembled? What are the points to look for?
There are review comments here about "clean assembly" but nothing that I can see that explicitly says "this one won't overheat".
Customer and interweb reviews are interesting, but subjective.

When an experienced technician reports that amps have overheated due to inadequate assembly it gives me pause for thought. (I acknowledge small sample size and possibly a point to prove, but I don't doubt the findings in each individual case)

I'm not looking to be spoon fed, but what do I look for in order to assess a build as 'competent'. What should I see?

"A person's common sense is shaped by what is common to him. It is, thus, possible and frequent that two mens' common senses are different"

I've been there. I thought I could run a Celeron 433Hz without a heatsink just by blowing a powerful fan at it.

Any guy experienced with dealing with heat knows how much cooling is needed for a certain amount of load. Is the flat plate at the bottom of the Ncore module able to cool 1000W x 93% efficiency = 75W of heat on its own? No way in hell. Have you seen how a passive heatsink for a 75W graphics card looks like? But precisely because the experienced people handling the end-product know it is no-way-in-hell which is why it is kind of a given that they would be doing something about it.
 
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