• WANTED: Happy members who like to discuss audio and other topics related to our interest. Desire to learn and share knowledge of science required as is 20 years of participation in forums (not all true). Come here to have fun, be ready to be teased and not take online life too seriously. We now measure and review equipment for free! Click here for details.

Dirac and similar

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,538
Likes
2,455
#1
It is quite widely agreed here that the room is the elephant in the room, yet there is very little discussion about the practical implications. So I have a very simple question: what are people's experiences with Dirac and the like, and particularly with all in solutions like those by minidsp? How easy is it, and how effective?
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
27,477
Likes
67,093
Location
Seattle Area
#2
I use Dirac up to 200 Hz and works great in my 2-channel system.

We have had a ton of discussion on the topic by the way. Just search for Dirac and you should get a lot of hits.

Also, "one of these days" I plan to compare different automated EQ systems.
 
OP
W

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,538
Likes
2,455
Thread Starter #3
Thanks for the suggestion - I will do a search. I have used an Antimode 8033 with great effect to tame my subwoofer. More recently I have used REW to decide on three filters for my new RME ADI-2 DAC to tame my Quad 2805 main speakers. This has improved sq even more, so I was wondering what the next step might be after this. However, I did find REW too complex for my taste and abilities (and the Antimode X4 too expensive for my budget).
 

Jim777

Member
Forum Donor
Joined
May 28, 2019
Messages
91
Likes
117
Location
Greater Boston
#5
I use Dirac up to 200 Hz and works great in my 2-channel system.

We have had a ton of discussion on the topic by the way. Just search for Dirac and you should get a lot of hits.

Also, "one of these days" I plan to compare different automated EQ systems.
Any recommendations on how to get started? I have a measurement mic and a ADI-2 DAC (channel independent 5 band parametric EQ + bass/treble), I think I know how to do the measurements, but I'm not sure where to go from there (figure out a correction target and find the right EQ settings to get there).
 
OP
W

Willem

Major Contributor
Joined
Jan 8, 2019
Messages
1,538
Likes
2,455
Thread Starter #6
With the ADI - 2 you only have three filters where it really matters: below 200 Hz. So choose the worst peaks in your REW graph and reduce those. It made a difffence in my case.
 
Last edited:

digitalfrost

Senior Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 22, 2018
Messages
379
Likes
514
Location
Palatinate, Germany
#7
I would suggest you start with REW and use the EQ correction. Just to get a feel for it, for room curves and what it can do. Then, you can use your REW measurements with DRC-FIR http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/

This can get you very far, without the need to spend any money, except for the measurement microphone that you're gonna need anyway.
 

Hipper

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
315
Likes
235
Location
Herts., England
#8
The principle behind Dirac/MiniDSP is to try and make the measuring and implementation of frequency curves as simple as possible. Most will use it full range (20Hz to 20kHz). If all you want to do is this then you should get good results, almost certainly an improvement on doing nothing..

However, if you want to understand all about room acoustics and why we need to do something about them, there is a lot more to know. With a fuller understanding, you may appreciate why Amir only makes changes up to 200Hz. You will learn how speaker and chair positioning can effect the sound, and perhaps why room treatment (bass traps etc.) may be better (of course both these may not be practical for everyone).
 

murraycamp

Active Member
Forum Donor
Joined
Jul 10, 2019
Messages
280
Likes
294
#9
I use a miniDSP SHD as a preamp/dsp/dac running Dirac. I am happy with it FWIW. Made an audibly substantial improvement in sq. I thought v1 was pretty straightforward.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
81
Likes
78
#10
The principle behind Dirac/MiniDSP is to try and make the measuring and implementation of frequency curves as simple as possible. Most will use it full range (20Hz to 20kHz). If all you want to do is this then you should get good results, almost certainly an improvement on doing nothing..

However, if you want to understand all about room acoustics and why we need to do something about them, there is a lot more to know. With a fuller understanding, you may appreciate why Amir only makes changes up to 200Hz. You will learn how speaker and chair positioning can effect the sound, and perhaps why room treatment (bass traps etc.) may be better (of course both these may not be practical for everyone).
Part of the reason is conceptual, alot of old timers like Floyd Toole do not like the "concept" full range room correction above the room transition frequency. However even Harman's own studies have shown that the average listener prefers the sound of multi-measurement, full bandwidth room correction over uncorrected sound, so while there's no studies between "only doing up to 200hz" versus "full range correction", it seems the vast amount of listeners at least think it's better than the uncorrected sound of even speakers that "measure perfectly anechoically". It's also worth noting this bias is mainly in the passive loudspeaker industry, whereas pro audio/active industry has been doing full-bandwidth correction for quite a while, and these are the people who produce the music we listen to.
 
Last edited:
Joined
May 21, 2019
Messages
54
Likes
66
Location
Columbus, Ohio
#11
I have, in the last week, implemented MathAudio for Foobar2000 in my listening room. The results of the measurements done with a Cross Spectrum Acoustics calibrated Behringer ECM mic, and the suggested room correction curve resulted in adjusting the system response for frequencies below 200 Hz.

I use dipole subwoofers (2 of them) to crossed over to Linkwitz LXmini speakers, It is somewhat troublesome to correctly match levels between the dipole subs and the LXminis. My initial level setting was determined by outdoor ground plane measurements. After setting up the system in my room, I made additional level adjustments between the sub and mains. MathAudio suggested additional tweaking of the levels. The MathAudio plug in allows level adjustment on the fly during playback and the overall system sound has improved as a result. No corrections were needed above 200 Hz. I am very pleased with the result and the price (free). For those who use Foobar and have subwoofers that need to be integrated, this is a tool worth looking at.
 

amirm

Founder/Admin
Staff Member
CFO (Chief Fun Officer)
Joined
Feb 13, 2016
Messages
27,477
Likes
67,093
Location
Seattle Area
#12
On my system correction above 200 Hz was hit and miss. On some tracks it improved things, on some it went backward a bit. Overall, I could live with it but I decided to not go there.
 
Joined
Sep 2, 2019
Messages
81
Likes
78
#13
Dirac Live 2.0 is still pretty buggy compared to version 1 and the software crashes alot. Maybe its placebo but version 2s default target curve sounds slightly leaner than v1 as well, when toggling between v1 and v2 filters. Supposedly stereo imaging is suppose to be better in version 2 as well, jury is still out.
 

Rja4000

Addicted to Fun and Learning
Joined
May 31, 2019
Messages
874
Likes
732
Location
Liège, Belgium
#14
I woulyou can use your REW measurements with DRC-FIR http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/

This can get you very far, without the need to spend any money, except for the measurement microphone that you're gonna need anyway.
I would suggest you start with REW and use the EQ correction. Just to get a feel for it, for room curves and what it can do. Then, you can use your REW measurements with DRC-FIR http://drc-fir.sourceforge.net/

This can get you very far, without the need to spend any money, except for the measurement microphone that you're gonna need anyway.
Hi
DRC looks cool.
Can you generate filters for Roon from there?
 

Krunok

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
4,600
Likes
2,815
Location
Zg, Cro
#15
Hi
DRC looks cool.
Can you generate filters for Roon from there?
You can generate filters for Roon with REW - here is a good article how to do it.

Regarding DRC, it generates filters in PCM format so you'll have to convert them to WAV format with SOX utility to be able to use them with Roon.
 
Last edited:

Hipper

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
315
Likes
235
Location
Herts., England
#18
Part of the reason is conceptual, alot of old timers like Floyd Toole do not like the "concept" full range room correction above the room transition frequency. However even Harman's own studies have shown that the average listener prefers the sound of multi-measurement, full bandwidth room correction over uncorrected sound, so while there's no studies between "only doing up to 200hz" versus "full range correction", it seems the vast amount of listeners at least think it's better than the uncorrected sound of even speakers that "measure perfectly anechoically". It's also worth noting this bias is mainly in the passive loudspeaker industry, whereas pro audio/active industry has been doing full-bandwidth correction for quite a while, and these are the people who produce the music we listen to.
Certainly a lot of people seem to like what Dirac does full range and of course I am not criticising them at all and it's certainly worth trying.

Do the pro-audio industry correct for the room? Full range? The manipulation of a recording is a different thing of course.
 

Hipper

Senior Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2019
Messages
315
Likes
235
Location
Herts., England
#19
You can generate filters for Roon with REW - here is a good article how to do it.

Regarding DRC, it generates filters in PCM format so you'll have to convert them to WAV format with SOX utility to be able to use them with Roon.
I use REW to measure and my current efforts involved creating filters with REW which I manually added to the Parametric EQ (PEQ) of my Behringer DEQ2496. It works pretty well.

Obviously if your hardware or software can implement the REW filters automatically that's great but it's an easy task to do it manually.

The Behringer has ten PEQ filters so I quickly ran out of them and it only got me to about 200Hz. I keep meaning to adjust higher up but the result is so good that I haven't got round to it (I should add I have lots of room treatment including many bass traps)!
 

Krunok

Major Contributor
Joined
Mar 25, 2018
Messages
4,600
Likes
2,815
Location
Zg, Cro
#20
It's standard convoling filters, if your player has a convolver you can use them.
Roon convolver doesn't support filters in PC format that DRC-FIR creates. You have to use SOX or similar utility to convert them to WAV format.
 
Last edited:

Similar threads

Top Bottom