Denafrips ARES II USB R2R DAC Review

[Maki]

There are so many recommendations from reviewers, forums and personal usage that say this DAC is above average and worth the investment.
Are they ALL wrong and every one here right?

This DAC is objectively above average by any measured metric. Nobody here disagrees with that. Again, the issue is with wild unsubstantiated magical claims.

 

[Killingbeans]

The purpose of any audio upgrade is for better sound.
I'm not looking for magic, I am trying to improve my sound system.

I know. That's why I'm trying steer you away from trying to upgrade things that, at best, isn't really much of an upgrade.

There are so many recommendations from reviewers, forums and personal usage that say this DAC is above average and worth the investment.
Are they ALL wrong and every one here right?

It's not about who's right or wrong. It's about looking at the data and evaluating it in the light of what we know about human hearing and its limitations.

When we look at the result from that, it paints a picture showing a high probability of those reviewers and owners having experienced the power of perceptual bias. That doesn't make them subordinate in any way. It's a natural thing that we all experience on a daily basis.

Music has a direct connection to our emotions. It's easy for us get caught up in an idea about endless possibilities.

The worst snake-oil products you can imagine also get high praise all over the web. A misconception doesn't automatically get nulled when enough people accept it as fact.

Then there are (sorry to say) dumb ass comments that the ares ii is no better than a $9 dongle.
That just shatters ANY credibility.

Well, there goes my credibility

Forget about me and my opinions. Just look at the numbers and tell me why they lie.

I never heard one in person.
And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the majority of na sayers have not either.

Ya got me there!

Don't need to experience the power of diluted fluids in order to express my distrust of homeopathy either.

 

[billyjoebob]

All anyone asks is the people declaring it superior do so after some degree of controlled listening between it and the other/ previous DAC and are prepared to detail what those controls were.

The "wired it into my system, pressed play and the veils lifted, angels took flight" contingent arent going to get a good hearing here. Nor are the "trust me, it just is and I have listened to the highest of fi " brigade. Enough people on here have detailed enough for me to wonder if its worthy of more detailed study. But I am sceptical that even if golden ears can tell a difference in tightly controlled tests, that Joe Schmo can hear the angels in his parents badly treated basement.

Fair enough!

 

[billyjoebob]

It's also hard to get your head around if you haven't heard this blasphemy before.

Huh?
What blasphemy?

 

[BDWoody]

Huh?
What blasphemy?

That price and sound quality have little to do with each other.

 

[billyjoebob]

That price and sound quality have little to do with each other.

When did I ever mention price?
I am seriously looking for advice.
I get called a troll by you, and say that price has nothing to do with sound quality.
If you are talking about my dongle comment, sorry but there is no way that I'm gonna belive anyone uses one for anything other than a cell phone or an iPad.
To ask for advice and be given that by multiple people (sorry @Killingbeans)
Is not helpful.

 

[Zensō]

Maybe this is my issue with all this!
The purpose of any audio upgrade is for better sound.
I'm not looking for magic, I am trying to improve my sound system.

There are so many recommendations from reviewers, forums and personal usage that say this DAC is above average and worth the investment.
Are they ALL wrong and every one here right?

Then there are (sorry to say) dumb ass comments that the ares ii is no better than a $9 dongle.
That just shatters ANY credibility.

Maybe this dac ain't the bee's knees.
I don't know?
I never heard one in person.
And I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that the majority of na sayers have not either.

Many people arrived here from a place where they believed all the hype and spent loads of money on snake oil based upon spurious subjective recommendations. The problem is, we humans are very, VERY good at imagining all sorts of things (just look at politics, cults, and conspiracy theories). It's a fact that we see, and especially hear, mostly with our brains, not our eyes and ears. If you haven't read this, it's a must for understanding what makes this place tick:

What We Hear

FIRST SOME UPDATES: This is a promising sign. I’ve managed to publish another article in less than a week and it’s a big one! Since last wee...

nwavguy.blogspot.com

Cognitive bias is a powerful thing, and it's rampant in audiophilia. Our expectations heavily influence what we believe we hear.

 

[billyjoebob]

I will read.

Question.
How do you handle a situation that can't have a blind test and subjectivity is all there is.
Example.
You go to a friends house and hear a system that is better than yours?
All you have is subjectivity.

 

[pkane]

I will read.

Question.
How do you handle a situation that can't have a blind test and subjectivity is all there is.
Example.
You go to a friends house and hear a system that is better than yours?
All you have is subjectivity.

Resist making such comparisons. Once you conduct some blind tests where and when you can, you’ll realize just how easily fooled our brains are. What sounds like an obvious and huge difference when you know what’s playing, often becomes impossible to distinguish when you don’t and use proper controls.

 

[Trell]

I will read.

Question.
How do you handle a situation that can't have a blind test and subjectivity is all there is.
Example.
You go to a friends house and hear a system that is better than yours?
All you have is subjectivity.

That is what you have available then, but it might just as well be that the room and placement of speakers and listener is better.

You could do some sound measurements to better understand the differences.

 

[BDWoody]

When did I ever mention price?

How about here?

Pardon my ignorance, but are you saying that all you will ever need to spend on a DAC is $100.

This doesn't give the impression of how unworthy a $100 DAC is in your eyes?

I am seriously looking for advice.

Then after being given advice, you seem to dismiss it out of hand.

Sorry, I can't get with this.
That is saying that a cell phone and an apple dongle will be all you ever need.

Then there are (sorry to say) dumb ass comments that the ares ii is no better than a $9 dongle.
That just shatters ANY credibility

To ask for advice and be given that by multiple people (sorry @Killingbeans)
Is not helpful.

So, that's kinda troll-ish.

If you don't like what you're hearing in terms of advice, you may be better off shopping for it on SBAF or similar.

 

[Killingbeans]

I am seriously looking for advice.

My advice:

Don't waste time worrying about the sound quality of DACs. In the rare cases where they actually make a difference, it will be nothing remotely close to "night and day". Truly bad DACs are easily exposed with simple measurements, showing signal clipping or other horrible things.

If you want to spend money on effective upgrades, aim them at dealing with room acoustics. And if that's not an option, throw as much cash as you can at speakers that excel at presenting the music in a way you love.

 

[Rottmannash]

When did I ever mention price?
I am seriously looking for advice.
I get called a troll by you, and say that price has nothing to do with sound quality.
If you are talking about my dongle comment, sorry but there is no way that I'm gonna belive anyone uses one for anything other than a cell phone or an iPad.
To ask for advice and be given that by multiple people (sorry @Killingbeans)
Is not helpful.

If you want advice I'd say buy a DAC for the features, as long as it passes muster in testing. Buy the Ares if it suits you but make sure you can return it if you find it no better than a less costly DAC-but make sure you do DBT to ensure it isn't just your imagination.

 

[voodooless]

Question.
How do you handle a situation that can't have a blind test and subjectivity is all there is.
Example.
You go to a friends house and hear a system that is better than yours?
All you have is subjectivity.

By realizing that you really cannot compare two systems without them being in the same room at the same time. And even once system might be optimized for one room, and not for another. What should be very clear by now is that changing a DAC will not get you anywhere nearer to audio Nirvana.

And even if objectively one system is better, it’s usually frequency response (on and off-axis) and room effect that dominate the experience, so spend your money on that!

 

[Wegi76]

By realizing that you really cannot compare two systems without them being in the same room at the same time. And even once system might be optimized for one room, and not for another. What should be very clear by now is that changing a DAC will not get you anywhere nearer to audio Nirvana.

And even if objectively one system is better, it’s usually frequency response (on and off-axis) and room effect that dominate the experience, so spend your money on that!

I`ve been watching a few youtube videos of a guy who consults and optimizes rooms for home recording purposes and he says that the first and foremost thing to do is to define the ideal listening and speaker positions in the room (--> to sit, where room modes are most evenly pronounced, place speakers to have perfect stereo imaging and having a stable phantom mid) In the next step he takes care for the time domain (treat the room for reflexion/reverbiation control), then takes care for frequency domain with things like bass traps etc... After all of this he thinks about using EQ to optimize the frequence response further. In his universe things like a DAC sounds plays no role at all. I know, that the studio guys don`t have to care about aesthetics much and subordinate everything to a neutral "see-through" sound and also hat not everyone wants to put in ugly absorbers and bass-traps in his living room of course.

Deep inside I also want to believe that a simple solution, like swapping my DAC, will improve the listening experience in a similar way than all of these nasty, expensive, ugly things that ruin the aestetics of your room and are complex to implement, but it`s probably better to accept that this will affect what we hear much more.

 

[voodooless]

The trick with just about all of these so called improvements is that they are ready to do. Anyone can replace an amp, DAC or cable, but measuring a room, creating an EQ or placing room acoustic panels takes time, skills and additional equipment. It’s far easier to just spend some money on a DAC. The mind will do the rest…

 

[Wegi76]

That`s exactly what I wanted to say... Personally I went the difficult path kind of half-way... Not willing to have room mode distribution dictate the location of furnitures, no space for proper bass-traps, no money for tuned traps or active absorbers but some broadband absorbers for eary reflection control and on the backwall, okaish speaker and subwoofer placement and room correction via MiniDSP, Dirac & REW... My wife - best wife of the world, of course - only shakes her head when she sees the ugly panels but she let`s me do my thing (in my room only of course... ;-)

And sorry for Off-Topic. If I should remove the post, let me know.

 

[Bob from Florida]

When did I ever mention price?
I am seriously looking for advice.
I get called a troll by you, and say that price has nothing to do with sound quality.
If you are talking about my dongle comment, sorry but there is no way that I'm gonna belive anyone uses one for anything other than a cell phone or an iPad.
To ask for advice and be given that by multiple people (sorry @Killingbeans)
Is not helpful.

A couple of observations. It sounds like you are reacting. Others are also reacting in return. Escalations occur and next thing you know the moderator reacts and banned the last guy that over reacted. Some of the folks on this forum are looking for reactions for entertainment. Somewhere along the way someone has to just "let it go" otherwise the cycle repeats.

The Aries measured well and by all accounts sounds good as well. If you are okay with price and return policy - seems like next step is to get one and see if it fits in your system.

 

[AaronJ]

DACs' only function is to convert digital signal back to analog as precise as possible. [...] If artist wanted it to sound warmer with more distortion, he/she would just do it in the studio.

Are either of these statements true? I'm not trying to stir the pot, but I don't believe either statement is true.

A DAC's only function is to convert digital signal back to analog in a way that sounds good to the listener. Some manufacturers will prefer it to sound as precise as possible, while others will prefer to add artifacts that cater to a particular audience. I have taken a very strong interest in this thread because I primarily listen to vinyl, and my digital playback is incredibly fatiguing by comparison.

I currently own a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 which I have had for a few years and sounds comparatively worse and worse the better the rest of my downstream system gets, so I am in the market for a new DAC that will cater to the sound I prefer. If the way to achieve that sound is through distortion then so be it. We know that vinyl playback introduces huge amounts of 2nd harmonic distortion; is the consensus of the forum that the Denafrips Ares II might actually be the best DAC to cater to the vinyl crowd based on the measurements? I'm not sure based on the 3rd harmonic spike - I would expect to see 2nd and 4th (especially 2nd) higher than 3rd to be consistent with the reviews of Denafrips DACs sounding more "analog" than any other DAC on the market. If we are to believe Schiit's measurements then the BF2 should actually be better for this goal.

I don't know if many artists actually care how the music sounds, but they certainly don't know/care how the listener wants it to sound. If the artists actually cared how the music sounds then we wouldn't end up with lousy recordings, mixes, masterings, pressings, etc., and they certainly wouldn't allow it to exist on YouTube and the like.

 

[Doodski]

Are either of these statements true?

Yes, they are both factual.

A DAC's only function is to convert digital signal back to analog in a way that sounds good to the listener.

Incorrect. The function of a DAC is to reproduce the audio as it was recorded without adding or taking anything away. The DACs do a veryyy good job of this.

I currently own a Cambridge Audio DacMagic 100 which I have had for a few years and sounds comparatively worse and worse the better the rest of my downstream system gets

It's in your imagination. Do a blind AB/X test with other DACs and you will see that.