Darlington Labs MM-5 Review (Phono Stage)

[mike70]

How do you level match them if they don't have exactly the same frequency response? If you try taking some average, you will end up being able to still tell them apart. Even a small frequency response difference can be pretty audible. Better yet if you actually EQ one to match the other, then I bet you absolutely would not be able to tell them apart - unless one has some high pass or low pass filter and the other doesn't. FR, I am going to go out on a limb here on ASR, has by the far the largest impact on what we "hear" and "perceive". Assuming distortion levels are reasonably comparable as well (as in one doesn't have high levels of odd order harmonics).

If the difference between them can be fixed with EQ, all the subjective terms you used before are pointless ... buy the cheaper one and do the EQ for your liking.

However... level matching digital content is something "common" in audio production. Maybe I'm wrong, but is easy to find "how-to's" in the internet (https://ledgernote.com/columns/mixi...-levels-in-home-recordings-for-even-playback/)

 

[Cwopete5]

I'm enjoying the newest version of the Darlington Labs MM-5 phono stage immensely. Truth be known, I previously owned an earlier version of the MP-7 but sold it due to unforeseen financial burden. I was doing my best to live with my Parasound Zphono and the Emotiva XPS-1 phono stages (both on the "recommended" list here at ASR) but there was something missing. I kept remembering the dreamy sounds of the MP-7 I had regrettably sold under financial pressure. So I ended up selling both the Parasound and Emotiva phono stages and bought a new MM-5. It is far better than I remembered. I'm still in the 30 day break-in window with the MM-5 and it's definitely improving with time. I leave it powered up 24/7. I'm running it with an integrated tube amp (EL34s) and an AT-VM95ML cartridge, just an awesome combination. I might be tempted in the future to upgrade to an MM-6 but for now, budget considerations and all, I am very satisfied with the MM-5. At $179 dollars, it has to be the phono stage bargain of the century.

 

[Angsty]

I'm enjoying the newest version of the Darlington Labs MM-5 phono stage immensely. Truth be known, I previously owned an earlier version of the MP-7 but sold it due to unforeseen financial burden. I was doing my best to live with my Parasound Zphono and the Emotiva XPS-1 phono stages (both on the "recommended" list here at ASR) but there was something missing. I kept remembering the dreamy sounds of the MP-7 I had regrettably sold under financial pressure. So I ended up selling both the Parasound and Emotiva phono stages and bought a new MM-5. It is far better than I remembered. I'm still in the 30 day break-in window with the MM-5 and it's definitely improving with time. I leave it powered up 24/7. I'm running it with an integrated tube amp (EL34s) and an AT-VM95ML cartridge, just an awesome combination. I might be tempted in the future to upgrade to an MM-6 but for now, budget considerations and all, I am very satisfied with the MM-5. At $179 dollars, it has to be the phono stage bargain of the century.

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The Darlington Labs phonostages have many fans. I had a Parasound Zphono that I found unengaging, too. I do believe that the perceived excellence of a phonostage is not as readily correlated to its SINAD alone as it is for a DAC.

 

[mike70]

The Darlington Labs phonostages have many fans. I had a Parasound Zphono that I found unengaging, too. I do believe that the perceived excellence of a phonostage is not as readily correlated to its SINAD alone as it is for a DAC.

Is it? ... you made a blind listening session with a 120DB SINAD DAC and other with 90?

 

[Angsty]

Is it? ... you made a blind listening session with a 120DB SINAD DAC and other with 90?

No, I can’t tell the difference between my 120 dB DAC and my 106 dB one. But, it’s interesting how we segment DACs by SINAD “color range” here but we have not done so with phonos. There are other things, like clipping, that play a role with phonos that are not as much of an issue with DACs.

 

[mike70]

No, I can’t tell the difference between my 120 dB DAC and my 106 dB one. But, it’s interesting how we segment DACs by SINAD “color range” here but we have not done so with phonos. There are other things, like clipping, that play a role with phonos that are not as much of an issue with DACs.

Hifi / hiend world is full of bull**** ... real world recordings / speakers / room interaction / noise floor destroys every improvement above certain range. Any "better sound" on that range are surely gain / EQ differences.

 

[Angsty]

Hifi / hiend world is full of bull**** ... real world recordings / speakers / room interaction / noise floor destroys every improvement above certain range. Any "better sound" on that range are surely gain / EQ differences.

I’d disagree when it comes to the topic of phono preamps. Yes, there can be bull****, but we also see on ASR that there are several parameters to measure that can make a difference. Many people listen primarily via headphones which negates the room interaction argument.

My experience is that phono preamps can sound different. I have two highly regarded ones stacked in my room now that I switch between periodically to listen for differences with different material. I have not done double blind testing, but I do have a clear preference for one over the other, even if the differences are small.

I could be prone to a confirmation bias, but I’d also argue that the architecture of the two preamps is different enough that they should sound a bit different.

 

[mike70]

I’d disagree when it comes to the topic of phono preamps. Yes, there can be bull****, but we also see on ASR that there are several parameters to measure that can make a difference. Many people listen primarily via headphones which negates the room interaction argument.

My experience is that phono preamps can sound different. I have two highly regarded ones stacked in my room now that I switch between periodically to listen for differences with different material. I have not done double blind testing, but I do have a clear preference for one over the other, even if the differences are small.

I could be prone to a confirmation bias, but I’d also argue that the architecture of the two preamps is different enough that they should sound a bit different.

If you make a blind listening and recognize the better preamp more than 7/10 times ... i believe you with all my heart.
And i don't say "anything is the same" .. i say "not everything is different"

 

[Angsty]

I really don’t plan to do a blind test; I have nothing to prove to myself. I do have other components where I hear no distinguishable differences when level matched: all my DACs and all three of my Class A/B amps.

I do hear distinguishable differences between my three phonostages, and that is good enough for me. It may not be enough for you and I’m okay with that.

I’d recommend that anyone who is unconvinced should buy components on measured differences alone, as they are verifiable and unbiased. Amir does a wonderful job of showing how phonostages measure differently.

 

[mike70]

I really don’t plan to do a blind test; I have nothing to prove to myself. I do have other components where I hear no distinguishable differences when level matched: all my DACs and all three of my Class A/B amps.

I do hear distinguishable differences between my three phonostages, and that is good enough for me. It may not be enough for you and I’m okay with that.

I’d recommend that anyone who is unconvinced should buy components on measured differences alone, as they are verifiable and unbiased. Amir does a wonderful job of showing how phonostages measure differently.

To believe in measurements and not in cognitive bias ... It's strange... at least.
But it's ok, we're all grown up people and we do / think what we want. Do as you please, we're not building a bridge or creating a treatment for cancer. It's only entertainment.

 

[Angsty]

To believe in measurements and not in cognitive bias ... It's strange... at least.
But it's ok, we're all grown up people and we do / think what we want. Do as you please, we're not building a bridge or creating a treatment for cancer. It's only entertainment.

I believe in both measurements and cognitive bias. I’m simply okay with having a cognitive bias if it brings me pleasure, especially for something as frivolous as consumer audio. I agree that it’s only entertainment, even if there is science behind it.

My point about measurements was that my particular experience is not necessarily shared by others. I have had the experience before of the more technically optimal solution being less enjoyable than one that is less optimal. Starting with the measurements always seems like a good option to me.

Another preference I have is to not buy anything that measures poorly across the board. I will entertain other biases with components that measure well but have different strengths. I’m fairly certain the two phonostages I mentioned earlier fall into that latter camp based on published measurements I’ve seen.

As for the MM-5, we can see from Amir’s tests what the deficiencies are, but I could see how it could be attractive to some users.