Circuit breaker - which to choose

[Dialectic]

i mean these type of devices, regarding how many kA - i dunno how to calculate the proper value or if 50kA is too much/etc


also hard to say,
i live in central EU close by Germany.

I lived in London, and power surges emanating from outside the home seemed exceedingly uncommon there in comparison to most of the United States, although I have no hard data.

According to the mountain of anecdotes on this subject, external power surges are most common in places with frequent thunderstorms, certain geological characteristics, hot summers (heavy AC usage causes grid disturbances), and unreliable power grids. Everyone who has lived in Florida seems to know someone who has experienced a large power surge.

This device can dissipate up to 50,000 amps of current, which is toward low end for these types of devices, at least for the ones on the market here in the United States. Type 1 and type 2 surge protectors sold in the United States commonly have ratings between 80,000 and 200,000 amps. Those beefier devices would not fit inside the service panel, unlike this unit.

But this device may be perfectly adequate to offer you some protection against power grid problems and is almost certainly more effective against big external surges than any widely available point-of-use surge protector.

 

[Speedskater]

so how can one decide which one etc?

Ask a certified electrician in your area.
AC power is not for newbies.

 

[voodooless]

Ask a certified electrician in your area.
AC power is not for newbies.

Well...

 

[audio_tony]

In the UK, surge protectors are now standard fitment in newer installations. This is a picture of our consumer unit - the surge protector is the yellow device to the left.

Here's a link to the surge protector: https://www.surgedevices.co.uk/product/sy2d-enc/

It looks as though it's 15kA (live to neutral) and 40kA neutral to earth (all figures maximum).

 

[roxor]

@Speedskater @voodooless well i dont want to install it by myself,
there are mostly not properly educated ;-) to provide meaningful advice... once if found out; all i can do is to order them for an installation.

@Dialectic , @audio_tony
thanks for the details, still dont help that much for a final decision ;-(

 

[roxor]

also the question would be if such a component can have impact on audio in terms of the sound... comparing to have it connected directly to the CR phase.

 

[Dialectic]

@Speedskater @voodooless well i dont want to install it by myself,
there are mostly not properly educated ;-) to provide meaningful advice... once if found out; all i can do is to order them for an installation.

@Dialectic , @audio_tony
thanks for the details, still dont help that much for a final decision ;-(

I think it's probably not needed for your use case.

These devices have become more common and are now required in some places (including most of the USA) because AFCI breakers are vulnerable to surge damage.

Do you have AFCI breakers? Are there frequent brownouts or lightning storms where you live?

If the answer to both is no, I'm guessing you don't need it.

It is also rather expensive for such a device. More robust units sell for $100-200 in the USA.

 

[audio_tony]

also the question would be if such a component can have impact on audio in terms of the sound... comparing to have it connected directly to the CR phase.

Mine was installed a while after I moved in here, and I didn't notice any difference in the sound of my HiFi (and neither did I expect any difference - why would it?) - it's essentially a passive device as far as I know.

 

[antcollinet]

i mean these type of devices, regarding how many kA - i dunno how to calculate the proper value or if 50kA is too much/etc

It is possible I misunderstood the purpose of the device. Ignore my comment.


Don't ignore the others that say you need a qualified person to advise.

also the question would be if such a component can have impact on audio in terms of the sound... comparing to have it connected directly to the CR phase.

100% no.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

@Speedskater @voodooless well i dont want to install it by myself,
there are mostly not properly educated ;-) to provide meaningful advice... once if found out; all i can do is to order them for an installation.

@Dialectic , @audio_tony
thanks for the details, still dont help that much for a final decision ;-(

Please don't select it yourself. Find an electrician who is certified for your local building and electrical regulations and can certify the installation, and seek their guidance. This way your insurance will still be valid. But please don't tell them how to do their job because you lack the relevant knowledge or qualifications to do so.

 

[akamatsu]

My understanding is they are even more important when there's not a safety ground. If there's a problem, it's likely YOU who is the alternate path to ground.

I think you said this backwards. You being a path to ground is the problem that GFCIs are designed to address.

 

[Timcognito]

Please don't select it yourself. Find an electrician who is certified for your local building and electrical regulations and can certify the installation, and seek their guidance. This way your insurance will still be valid. But please don't tell them how to do their job because you lack the relevant knowledge or qualifications to do so.

 

[akamatsu]

The third pin chassis ground on an outlet needs to be tied to neutral. If the hot wire inside the component comes loose and touches the inside of the case, the chassis ground will complete the circuit via the neutral and trip the breaker. No one gets electrocuted. I've read stories of audiophiles disconnecting the ground wires from the neutrals and attaching all of them to a grounding rod.

 

[Speedskater]

also the question would be if such a component can have impact on audio in terms of the sound... comparing to have it connected directly to the CR phase.

Only if the old unit is defective, will it have an impact on sound.
If you think that the old breaker has a problem:
a] measure the AC line voltage
b] try using another circuit.

 

[Dialectic]

Please don't select it yourself. Find an electrician who is certified for your local building and electrical regulations and can certify the installation, and seek their guidance. This way your insurance will still be valid. But please don't tell them how to do their job because you lack the relevant knowledge or qualifications to do so.

Not sure I'd seek the guidance of an electrician. An electrical engineer perhaps, but not an electrician.

I've had two reputable, expensive, licensed electricians work on my house in recent years. Both made significant and visually obvious mistakes. One of the mistakes was extremely dangerous.

My experience is not unusual. Perhaps it's different in Germany.

 

[Speedskater]

Without an electrician, how will this new circuit happen?
Circuit breakers are installed in their matching circuit breaker box.
Appropriate wires are run thru walls.
Receptacles are installed in wall outlet boxes.

And at the end of the day, the correct top shelf breaker, wire and receptacle will do just fine.

Note that it takes a very large home theater system to require more than one 120 Volt 20 Amp circuit.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Not sure I'd seek the guidance of an electrician. An electrical engineer perhaps, but not an electrician.

I've had two reputable, expensive, licensed electricians work on my house in recent years. Both made significant and visually obvious mistakes. One of the mistakes was extremely dangerous.

My experience is not unusual. Perhaps it's different in Germany.

My father started his career as a qualified electrician, then through vocational training (couldn't afford to go to college when leaving school) became an electrical engineer. He absolutely would have been able to this kind of work safely whilst being an electrician.

 

[audio_tony]

Only if the old unit is defective, will it have an impact on sound.
If you think that the old breaker has a problem:
a] measure the AC line voltage
b] try using another circuit.

I'd be interested to know what failure mode would cause a defective breaker to have an effect on the sound of a Hifi.

I had an issue with a breaker that would make a buzzing noise under heavy load (~25 amps) but even that had no impact on the sound of my HiFi.

In my experience, a typical failure mode of a breaker is failure to reset (it won't latch on the on position).

 

[Speedskater]

I'd be interested to know what failure mode would cause a defective breaker to have an effect on the sound of a Hifi.

I would think that anything that causes the contact points to form a high resistance joint could be an audible problem.

 

[audio_tony]

I would think that anything that causes the contact points to form a high resistance joint could be an audible problem.

The failure mode you're describing would typically lead to the breaker tripping due to heat.

I have seen some older types spark when reset with a fault still present, I guess this could cause some carbon build up on the contacts, however it would have to be reset in this condition many times, and if someone is stupid enough to repeatedly reset a breaker when it immediately arcs / flashes over and trips, well...

Most of the modern ones (past 15 years or so here in the UK) seem to trip immediately with no discernible flash over, but of course that will also depend on the load present at the time.

In summary, the contact points would have to be very high resistance before any voltage drop occurred when powering a typical HiFi system drawing 1 to 2 amps. And even then, it's highly unlikely it would be audible, as the breaker should trip if a lot of heat is generated due to high contact resistance.