Which KEF R Meta to choose?

[aspen63]

I want to build a setup for 60% movies and 40% music and I cannot decide which RL speakers to choose, R7 Meta or R11 Meta. Either way I’ll add a sub or two. One of the problems is with the room itself, you can see its configuration and size in the attachment. Speakers placement is indicated in red. Sometimes I am so lazy that I prefer watching movies while lying on a sofa (indicated in blue) which I unfold occasionally bringing it close to the speakers (about 40 cm). The sofa’s height of 50 cm could potentially block the lower drivers on the R11 Meta. What do you think I should choose if budget is not an issue?

As for the finish. Black would be the most aesthetically appropriate, but I’m concerned about glossy finish looking awful in direct sunlight over time. I’m considering the walnut version instead. What’s your experience with this?

 

[Heinrich]

... Sometimes I am so lazy that I prefer watching movies while lying on a sofa ...

How dare you. I'm hardly willing to sit in a stereo triangle as a stiff mannequin myself. The bigger problem is probably the asymmetry in the positioning of the boxes on the one hand and the room on the other. This can affect the tonality, and the frequency-dependent localization becomes a problem, despite the relaxed mood (mode). So that's going to be a bit difficult.

I have a similar problem with a set-up that I want to make for someone else. I'm shortening the stereo base and, for variety, I'm using speakers with particularly wide dispersion. This gives up a lot of the perfect stereo impression, some even want illusions. The “image” will be washed out. But isn't that better than getting a sharply distorted impression in most cases?

An alternative in your situation could be to also radiate the lower mids sideways in an extremely directional way. But that requires space, which you probably don't want to spend.

As a result, I recommend the R3, which you can also use horizontally (center speaker?). The smaller size also allows for more flexible positioning. And the financial risk is not quite as great. One or better two subwoofers are obligatory anyway?

 

[aspen63]

Don’t you think Dirac could have helped a bit?

 

[JRowland]

R7 metas in a 17 foot (sub on right to wall on left) by 12 foot room if it helps visualize at all. I’m like 95% music, 4% TV and maybe a movie a year. I’ve got a third sub behind the mlp, I added the $100 10” sub in the left corner most recently to experiment and 3 for me (subjectively) sound/feel better than 2 for smooth bass across several seats. I can’t use the power I have available without ear protection. I’m happy with the size of the 7’s, they play real loud cleanly and in my room produce good bass down to 28 hz using a tone generator (without subs). Too bad my room screws that up and it’s not smooth, I use the subs for music as well and that solves most of the low bass issues.

I like that the walnut finish doesn’t show dust in direct sunlight.

 

[aspen63]

Dust is certainly bad but little scratches are even worse

 

[JRowland]

Dust is certainly bad but little scratches are even worse

Fingerprints too, that room faces due west and I’ve got a nice view of the sun setting behind the mountains out those windows. That room gets pretty bright in the afternoon.

 

[Heinrich]

Don’t you think Dirac could have helped a bit?

May be some others con comment on that. I've learened from stereo science that 'flat on-axis' is the way to go, especially not (no, no) a straight diffuse field, how much it may ever be tilted (aka Harman curve). DIRAC, to my knowledge follows the latter route.

Question is, if the inevitable reflections from the right wall would be accounted for as 'direct' or 'early reflection' or even 'diffuse'. The Harman standard doesn't know about your room and set-up, which, alas, is a little bit extreme. Don't change it, looks nice, but for stereo, and in particular for following the standard isn't ideal.

Reiterated, I would scale down a little, or scale up by a vast amount. Not the least, you may want to explore the possibilities with lesser investment beforehand. There are little speakers on the market, maybe used, with good quality in regard to the standard, Adam Audio, JBL (305?) and such. Very little money compared to the planned all-my-money KEFs. Using these try to optimize in regard to stereo quality, not bass or clearity, max-out volume, just how stereo/movies are projected into the room, playing the infamous test signals etc. It might help to come to a well weighted decision.

 

[staticV3]

@aspen63

The R11's woofers are crossed at 330Hz, so I doubt that breaking line of sight to one of four woofers would be audible.

Still, since you'll add subs anyway, I don't see a point in paying extra for the R11. The R7 looks neater, too.

 

[WaveCollapser]

For a stereo setup I'd buy the biggest you can afford, but since you will have subs, R7 probably should be enough.

 

[DMill]

Depends on your end game. The R7s will do the job in your room. You buy a bigger house with a giant room down the road, the R11s now seem smart.

 

[Heinrich]

Depends on your end game.

;-) depends on age, doesn‘t it?

In earnest, don‘t you see by how much the given situation departs from a standard room, as is used to ‚predict‘ response in the spinorama dataset? Much of the KEF’s virtues will be lost. This rather calls for cardioid or a wide baffle speaker, Grimm Audio (not a fan of either, but …).

In regard to scratches catching sunlight I recommend to use finest steelwool to equalize them eventually. What can be said is, that the two R11s will provide bigger surface to acquire and show such defects.

 

[Marc v E]

I want to build a setup for 60% movies and 40% music and I cannot decide which RL speakers to choose, R7 Meta or R11 Meta. Either way I’ll add a sub or two. One of the problems is with the room itself, you can see its configuration and size in the attachment. Speakers placement is indicated in red. Sometimes I am so lazy that I prefer watching movies while lying on a sofa (indicated in blue) which I unfold occasionally bringing it close to the speakers (about 40 cm). The sofa’s height of 50 cm could potentially block the lower drivers on the R11 Meta. What do you think I should choose if budget is not an issue?

As for the finish. Black would be the most aesthetically appropriate, but I’m concerned about glossy finish looking awful in direct sunlight over time. I’m considering the walnut version instead. What’s your experience with this?

Imo in your situation, your room and placement of your speakers is what determines the sound quality the most.

Thinking out of the box I would consider smaller speakers like the R3. Or speakers designed for wall placement like Lyngdorf. It would probably help a lot too if you could minimize reflections from the right and rear wall (behind the couch)

Some things to try and get an idea of possible improvements are to place the speakers closer together and more away from the wall. Another thing to try is get some space between the rear wall and the couch. All should improve image and focus.

If it were me, I would even consider moving the speakers on either side of the window at the right with a curtain behind them to block the sunlight; and the couch facing the window directly at about 2,5 meter to form a perfect triangle.

Last but not least: kef in walnut looks stunning.

 

[aspen63]

Thank you all for your help! Unfortunately, I cannot change furniture layout due to several reasons, including the placement of HT speakers in the ceiling. To mitigate room issues I put a carpet on the hardwood floor and hung quite heavy curtains on the right wall. On the back wall I placed a large painting and that’s all I can do for now.
Although I understand R7Ms with subs are more than enough for my room, I didn’t find a proper review for them here at ASR whereas R11M is highly recommended here so I thought that maybe, MAYBE R11Ms would be more capable speakers even in my place. If that’s not the case then I would be quite happy with R7Ms.

 

[Heinrich]

Thank you all for your help! Unfortunately, I cannot change furniture layout due to several reasons, including the placement of HT speakers in the ceiling. To mitigate room issues I put a carpet on the hardwood floor and hung quite heavy curtains on the right wall. On the back wall I placed a large painting and that’s all I can do for now.
Although I understand R7Ms with subs are more than enough for my room, I didn’t find a proper review for them here at ASR whereas R11M is highly recommended here so I thought that maybe, MAYBE R11Ms would be more capable speakers even in my place. If that’s not the case then I would be quite happy with R7Ms.

In case you decided for the KEF already, go ahead and stick to the 7 anyway. The glossy black finish will show smear like an iphone. But wait, from touching them. Don‘t do that, done.

You might get away with the positioning, if you toe in the speakers by 45 degrees, plus equalize the right one massively well beyond the Schroeder frequency, plus readjusting phase aka group delay to match left and right. Still,it won‘t be nirvana, what you could expect rightfully from a caliber that the R7 actually is. (Don‘t worry the missing test.)

 

[JRowland]

Thank you all for your help! Unfortunately, I cannot change furniture layout due to several reasons, including the placement of HT speakers in the ceiling. To mitigate room issues I put a carpet on the hardwood floor and hung quite heavy curtains on the right wall. On the back wall I placed a large painting and that’s all I can do for now.
Although I understand R7Ms with subs are more than enough for my room, I didn’t find a proper review for them here at ASR whereas R11M is highly recommended here so I thought that maybe, MAYBE R11Ms would be more capable speakers even in my place. If that’s not the case then I would be quite happy with R7Ms.

I found I needed a decent amount of treatment on the back wall and I’m about 3 feet away from it.