Can you hear a difference between audio cables? ABX test

[pkane]

Interestingly, direct subtraction in Adobe Audition makes better job in this test than the Deltawave. Deltawave delta file is much more audible than the directly subtracted file, in this test. This is interesting and I would like to know what makes the algorithm to create bigger difference.

Can you show what the error looks like looks like in Audition? I get about -69dB RMS difference with a single error peak at around -35dB around the 25 second mark.

I see a greater error if I just subtract these without removing a small clock drift. Which brings up an interesting question: why did the clock drift between these at all if what you changed were two analog cables?

 

[pma]

Can you show what the error looks like looks like in Audition? I get about -69dB RMS difference with a single error peak at around -35dB around the 25 second mark.

Sure.

AA direct Deltawave delta

I can post the files as well, if you needed them. The biggest difference is in audibility.

 

[FrantzM]

Hi

Trying to pull a reverse @maty ..

The 2 cables sound the same to me...
..
.
I didn't take the test.



Peace.

 

[Spkrdctr]

In my opinion the cables sound the same. I used a strict testing regimen accounting for as many variables as I could. In the end, my cat couldn't tell the difference at all. He has very good hearing too. So, as they say, that settles that. I hate having to get all sciency like this but some topics demand it.

I'm back to figuring out all of the supposed "settled" science on the Universe and its origination and well, a lot of what is supposed to be facts. James Webb just keeps turning the apple cart over on a near monthly basis. Interesting stuff we are learning from a new telescope. I just wish I could live a lot longer. Interesting times.

 

[pma]

In my opinion the cables sound the same.

That is fine and that is not the case. The case is that very different cables and/or interconnection method (single ended/balanced) may change the sound of the whole system depending on system configuration and components used, by introducing unwanted signals and noises. This is the merit of this test.

 

[pma]

Can you show what the error looks like looks like in Audition? I get about -69dB RMS difference with a single error peak at around -35dB around the 25 second mark.

I see a greater error if I just subtract these without removing a small clock drift. Which brings up an interesting question: why did the clock drift between these at all if what you changed were two analog cables?

I have uploaded the difference files to dropbox as a *.zip file

cable_delta_sub.zip

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Clock drift - DAC and ADC clocks are not synchronized and 2 have two test runs. And we have a messy loop constituted by 2 USB ports.

 

[pma]

@AdamG , your last post is beyond my language understanding capability as a non-native speaker .

 

[SIY]

This is the merit of this test.

Since you're only showing differences below -100dB, you've changed more than the cables, and even that difference may have to do with the measurement itself, this doesn't seem to follow.

 

[AdamG]

@AdamG , your last post is beyond my language understanding capability as a non-native speaker .

I was making a lighthearted joke. It fell flat obviously. Now deleted.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

So, from my understanding, the thread title can be misleading, as despite being 2 different cables, measured differences are rather related to balanced / unbalanced topologies.
Am I correct ?

 

[SIY]

So, from my understanding, the thread title can be misleading, as despite being 2 different cables, measured differences are rather related to balanced / unbalanced topologies.
Am I correct ?

Maybe. Or maybe the interaction with the measurement setup. Lots of variables here. And yet... everything is still minuscule.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

Maybe. Or maybe the interaction with the measurement setup. Lots of variables here. And yet... everything is still minuscule.

Yep, so even more less related to the cable wires themselves.
With current title, I am afraid that this thread will turn into, like some other ones, a chaotic endless sterile fight with cable believers.

 

[pma]

So, from my understanding, the thread title can be misleading, as despite being 2 different cables, measured differences are rather related to balanced / unbalanced topologies.
Am I correct ?

Exactly. That was the intent (masked in cable difference, though cable difference exists, it is unimportant). It is my intention to emphasize the fact that balanced line is important. Single ended link between two class I devices or two USB devices is the biggest source of errors in SOTA signal sources + amps. Not tested, unfortunately, or tested under clinical conditions only.

 

[pma]

Maybe. Or maybe the interaction with the measurement setup. Lots of variables here. And yet... everything is still minuscule.

Measurement setup limit is 123 dB SINAD. Better than line of cheaper AP series.

 

[pkane]

I have uploaded the difference files to dropbox as a *.zip file

cable_delta_sub.zip

Shared with Dropbox

www.dropbox.com

Clock drift - DAC and ADC clocks are not synchronized and 2 have two test runs. And we have a messy loop constituted by 2 USB ports.

Thanks, Pavel, I’ll check them out when I get back to the computer.

 

[pma]

Yep, so even more less related to the cable wires themselves.
With current title, I am afraid that this thread will turn into, like some other ones, a chaotic endless sterile fight with cable believers.

Single ended vs. balanced lines (cables). Most users do not have exact knowledge how big issue may single ended line be. The length of cables under test was 25cm only. Still, the error current through the cable screen creates error voltages.

Guys, I would seriously consider only the technical posts supported by facts (= measurements). Not supported by a mere hypothesis.

 

[vicenzo_del_paris]

Single ended vs. balanced lines (cables). Most users do not have exact knowledge how big issue may single ended line be. The length of cables under test was 25cm only. Still, the error current through the cable screen creates error voltages.

Guys, I would seriously consider only the technical posts supported by facts (= measurements). Not supported by a mere hypothesis.

Thus, I think I will be nice to rename the thread to have single ended / balanced information within it.
It will attract different people and less trolls.

 

[Zapper]

Anybody tried the test? Heard any difference? Any ABX record?

Yes. No. No.

I started the foobar2000 ABX test, can't hear any difference after spending about 15 minutes trying to find one, so didn't continue. Thanks for posting this and the supplementary data.

I do not use a PC for listening, so am not well equipped for it. I used a Thinkpad X1 Carbon (running on battery), Windows 10, Audioengine D1, wired Bose QC35 II.

The difference "between the two cables" used above.

The differences are lower than -100dB. I didn't expect to hear that, and wasn't surprised that I didn't. Maybe some people can. My bias is towards "no difference", so bias confirmed, but I did try as hard as I had patience for.

 

[SIY]

Measurement setup limit is 123 dB SINAD. Better than line of cheaper AP series.

But that says nothing about interaction with DUT. And again, stuff is all under -100dB.

 

[voodooless]

But that says nothing about interaction with DUT. And again, stuff is all under -100dB.

That’s for the SINAD measurements, the two music files are way less similar, see:

Can you hear a difference between audio cables? ABX test

Interestingly, direct subtraction in Adobe Audition makes better job in this test than the Deltawave. Deltawave delta file is much more audible than the directly subtracted file, in this test. This is interesting and I would like to know what makes the algorithm to create bigger difference...

www.audiosciencereview.com

Given the SINAD measurement one would expect less of a difference.