Can channel crosstalk be actually a good thing?

[solderdude]

Theory - stereo imaging suffers in headphones because, unlike speakers, each ear is isolated from what the other ear hears.

This is only 1 aspect of stereo image is suffering. If it were the only aspect crossfeed would work for everyone. It doesn't so there are more aspects that do this. The largest one being sounds coming from either side of the head and not being point sources but rather walls on each side of you emitting sound which also introduces issues.

Question - can some channel crosstalk--and I am not talking about 'crossfeed'--be actually a good thing for imaging in headphones/earphones?

I suppose it could be helpfull with wide panned stereo images but is would have to be a substantial amount (less than 20dB channel separation) and this will not create the same effect as crossfeed as this is a frequency dependent crosstalk (and timing as well)

So I would say some crosstalk no... a lot of 'monofying' (deliberately added) crosstalk perhaps this could make the stereo image less wide but more inside the head.

Crosstalk in electronics usually is frequency dependent and becomes worse for higher frequencies. This is the opposite of what crossfeed does. separation is smaller for lower frequencies and becomes wider for higher frequencies.
This means crosstalk by electronic components is not desirable from this standpoint.


full disclosure. All the binaural recordings I tried did not bring sound 'forward' for me. It is always inside my head. My brain doesn't want to be fooled with headphones. Haven't tried high-end binauralizers, just binaural recordings on various headphones.

Strangely enough with some normal recordings where sounds that weren't part of the music sometimes fools me into looking behind me or in a direction it appeared to come from. Alas not with headphones. I have no problems with getting stereo images using good directional speakers so it's not that ears and brain aren't capable.

 

[Deleted member 16543]

Late to this but:
About 20 years ago we experimented with a few of the shortcomings of record player systems to see why they didn't sound all that bad despite the awful specs. One of the tests was crosstalk.
A very good pickup cartridge has crosstalk in the 25 to 35 dB range ar mid frequencies. Neither of us listening could hear any difference when crosstalk was increased from the maximum in the digital file to 30dB. Completely inaudible to us both.

I used to frequently do my own recordings using a rented dummy head. The balance was achieved entirely by moving the "head" during rehearsals. I find these recordings very natural over headphones and speakers, though I must admit I am judging instrumental balance and timbre (very important to me) much more than imaging when I am listening.

There is research indicating that below -20 dB (it also depends on the time of arrival), any subsequent sound is not detectable for the listener. Thank god, I may add! Making an accurate loudspeaker is already difficult enough as it is..
Anyway, this might explain why at 30 dB you can't hear it. I think you could have gone up another 5-10 dB as well.

I'm totally in agreement with your audio priorities. I'm totally willing to give up a little of imaging for the sake of accurate timbre of acoustical instruments. So far I haven't experienced that with any headphone, not the the degree that loudspeakers are capable to reproduce.
I am quite intrigued by the Raal SR1a, though..

 

[Frank Dernie]

There is research indicating that below -20 dB (it also depends on the time of arrival), any subsequent sound is not detectable for the listener. Thank god, I may add! Making an accurate loudspeaker is already difficult enough as it is..
Anyway, this might explain why at 30 dB you can't hear it. I think you could have gone up another 5-10 dB as well.

I'm totally in agreement with your audio priorities. I'm totally willing to give up a little of imaging for the sake of accurate timbre of acoustical instruments. So far I haven't experienced that with any headphone, not the the degree that loudspeakers are capable to reproduce.
I am quite intrigued by the Raal SR1a, though..

The first headphone I have used where the timbre of a piano seemed very realistic was the Verum 1, that is why I bought them.
The guy demonstrating a headphone amp at the Scalford show had lots of well known HPs but had been a funder of the Verum and had just received his. They were better than a well known model 10x their price on piano timbre IMO.
I ordered some as soon as I got home but they took 5 months to arrive, alternative pads I ordered months ago still haven't arrived.

 

[onion]

Interaural time difference and interaural level difference provide the cues that allow listeners to locate sound in a 3d sound-field. Inter-aural crosstalk cancellation is the method for speakers. This DSP can be replicated for headphones. Never sounds as good with headphones as it does with speakers - it's less 'physical'

 

[Deleted member 16543]

For Win10 users I found out this very cheap app called Neutron music player that has DSP that does both cross talk addition and RACE based cancellation.
Still looking for something cheap to do that with OSX. Virtualbox seems to work, in theory, but the results were awful with my older mac mini. Maybe with a newer mac it could work better. Maybe not.

 

[Tim Link]

I've had luck with externalized imaging from binaural recordings listened to on headphones, but it required effort and concentration. One binaural CD had an intro where they move around the dummy head mic. and tell you what kind of space you are in, where they are relative to you, etc. It's important for me to listen to that while visualizing their descriptions before moving on to the music. Then, I must be able to see adequate space around me for the apparent sound sources to exist. Finally, I must not move my head much. I must stay very still. If I do all that, it will work on some recordings. I remember sitting in my bedroom and looking out the door across the hallway and into the bathroom. There was a very strong perception of someone playing a saxophone in the bathroom.
Experiments have shown that we can adapt to very different HRTF quickly if we are given some time to experiment and adapt to the new ear/head arrangement. They did weird stuff like putting putty in peoples earlobes to completely change the shape, sometimes flattening everything out smooth with a load of putty on each side of the head. People re-learned to externally locate sounds from various directions quickly with their newly shaped heads. Binaural might be made more adaptable to ear-lobe shapes if some kind of visual cue training was available. This might occur very naturally and easily with VR headsets.