Cabling and interconnecting question

[nab1828]

Ok, I'm gonna ask again. I've read the RANA guide, watched this video, read a bunch of threads. For the love of God, can I or can I not use some random RCA to XLR cable I have, without damaging any equipment?! This is what the Genelec guy wrote: "Yes the noise can be issue most likely and the signal grounding wont happen with that cable. And in long run it can even harm the speaker since it is not meant to be used with that speaker."

This is the cable wiring I have:

I have ordered a pair of Neutrik RCA to male XLR adapters to use with XLR cables. I want to try the speakers with the above apparently incorrectly wired cables though. Everyone has a different idea on how this stuff is supposed to work. Besides potential noise and ground loops, is there risk of damaging anything?! I don't care about noise.

 

[Speedskater]

Not all XLR output stages are happy with having pin3 attached to pin1.

 

[nab1828]

Not all XLR output stages are happy with having pin3 attached to pin1.

It's an RCA output from the Wiim Pro Plus to XLR 8030c powered monitors. What's "happy"? Degraded sound quality? Or risk of damage of some sort?

 

[gwing]

Ithink in your case you have RCA output stage not XLR so the not happy' warning wouldn't be relevant.

 

[LTig]

It's an RCA output from the Wiim Pro Plus to XLR 8030c powered monitors. What's "happy"? Degraded sound quality? Or risk of damage of some sort?

In this context nothing will happen. If there is some hum make sure that the Wiim and both speakers use the same power line socket.

 

[nab1828]

This is what the manual says:

"An unbalanced source may be used as long as pin 3 is grounded to pin 1 at the unbalanced source connector. "

My cables don't do that, they're connected near the output instead of at the source. I have ordered two adapters but in the meantime would like to try the speakers with these cables and I'm not sure what happens if I do.

 

[LTig]

See posting #5 above.

 

[nab1828]

In this context nothing will happen. If there is some hum make sure that the Wiim and both speakers use the same power line socket.

They do, just on daisy chained extension cords temporarily.

 

[nab1828]

See posting #5 above.

Hearing faint crackling and humming from the speakers.

 

[nab1828]

I'm crying, hearing music for the first time.

 

[Zek]

My cables don't do that, they're connected near the output instead of at the source.

It doesn't matter at all, in both cases pins 1 and 3 are connected.

 

[LTig]

Hearing faint crackling and humming from the speakers.

I'm crying, hearing music for the first time.

Still noisy when music is not playing? Reduce the input volume of the speakers and see if raising the output volume of the Wiim gives enough loudness level.

 

[rcstevensonaz]

OP: could you edit your original post to include (a) the source, and (b) the target device? You include that lower, but your reader has to wade through a lot of posts to find that very important detail. Also, how long is the cable and how far away is the WiiM from the Genelec speakers?

If you are ordering an adapter, include a link to the product details for the adapter. Some adapters short 1 & 3, others do not. And as others noted, some end devices want 1 & 3 shorted, others do not.

 

[nab1828]

OP: could you edit your original post to include (a) the source, and (b) the target device? You include that lower, but your reader has to wade through a lot of posts to find that very important detail. Also, how long is the cable and how far away is the WiiM from the Genelec speakers?

If you are ordering an adapter, include a link to the product details for the adapter. Some adapters short 1 & 3, others do not. And as others noted, some end devices want 1 & 3 shorted, others do not.

Source is Wiim Pro Plus, turntable or LG C1 TV via optical, which I'm now changing to Bluetooth because the ****** TV has frequent sound dropouts via Toslink and I'm not alone here (LG is garbage save for the panels, which are top notch; everything else in terms of hardware and software is trash, so stay away imo).

Speakers are connected with Cable Matters RCA to XLR cables which are not wired according to the diagram from Genelec. From what I understand, the problem is where the connection between pin 1 and 3 wires happens - it should be near the RCA output. Thus, the adapter wiring shouldn't matter, because it's maybe 1 or 2 inches long and sits at the RCA output. But it's the Neutrik NTR-NA2MPMM.

The Wiim is on the same desk as the speakers, maybe a meter away. The cables are 1.8 meters in length.

 

[MaxwellsEq]

The reason you can't get a simple yes/no answer is because the dependency is less about the cables and connectors and more about how ground is established in the devices at either end.

Even if you tell us what the devices are we can only be certain if we know what the outer of the RCA is connected to inside the source and what happens to pin 1 and 3 inside the recieving device! In 99% of cases, where an RCA goes to an XLR, joining 1 and 3 at either end will probably be fine, but sometimes there's a benefit from doing it at one end or the other.

If I'm creating a grounded point where I don't have enough information about internals, I tend to do it at the source end.

 

[Speedskater]

The reason you can't get a simple yes/no answer is because the dependency is less about the cables and connectors and more about how ground is established in the devices at either end.

Exactly! This is a pet subject of Jim Brown, retired Audio Engineering Society, EMI/RFI committee chair.
He touches on it in many of his 50 or do papers and PowerPoints:

Audio Systems Group, Inc. Publications

 

[MaxwellsEq]

Exactly! This is a pet subject of Jim Brown, retired Audio Engineering Society, EMI/RFI committee chair.
He touches on it in many of his 50 or do papers and PowerPoints:

Audio Systems Group, Inc. Publications

Ah yes, the famous Pin 1 articles! Even the best studio gear had implementations which were wrong (and required bespoke fixes). It was great that everyone agreed what the correct answer was, but then it was quite some time before the majority got it right.

 

[Speedskater]

As Jim Brown often points out:
With XLR connectors it's a Pin 1 problem, but with all other connectors (and cables that enter without a connector) it's a shield problem.
All shields need to be attached to a metal chassis at the point the cable or connector enters the chassis.
It was Neil Muncy (RIP) that first pointed this out way back in 1994.