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Thoughts on RAAL tweeter? BMR tower and Ascend ELX

I suspect that the RAAL ribbon tweeters might be more fragile and less durable than a standard dome tweeter. This is ok if you live in the same country or easy access to send to repair, but in another country without local customer service the RAAL feels riskier to me.

@AscendDF am I right?
I can't speak for DF, but of all the 64-10 tweeters we've sold over the years, none has failed. To be fair, if one did, the whole assembly would have to be replaced. I believe the larger and much more expensive 70-20 tweeter used in the Ascend towers has a user-replaceable ribbon element.
 
Madisound in the U.S. sells replacement ribbons for three RAAL models.
 
I can't speak for DF, but of all the 64-10 tweeters we've sold over the years, none has failed. To be fair, if one did, the whole assembly would have to be replaced. I believe the larger and much more expensive 70-20 tweeter used in the Ascend towers has a user-replaceable ribbon element.
The ancient Jordanov ribbon was very delicate. Glad to see the improvement in this regard. But still, the ribbon is meant to solve a problem that never existed in the first place. Frequency response ad ultimo (123kHz++) and ‚impulse‘ with low mass. It originates in an outdated idealism, prevalent when vinyl was king. It was all totally wrong, not only misconceptions, as we know for sure today.

The quite special, sometimes grotesque directivity may be the only feature left in favor to the ribbon. But take a second look, and come to your own conclusions.
 
Is the tweeter bright compared to a dome. I have read about lack of vertical dispersion and may be better suited for certain types of music.
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I could see how ribbons may be better in certain rooms where room/speaker interaction changes with directivity, but I would have a hard time believing a ribbon is better for genre X without considering the room, speaker placement, listening position, recording, etc. There are too many other variables to consider to point fingers solely at the tweeter.
 
I suspect that the RAAL ribbon tweeters might be more fragile and less durable than a standard dome tweeter. This is ok if you live in the same country or easy access to send to repair, but in another country without local customer service the RAAL feels riskier to me.

@AscendDF am I right?
Less durable in shipping for sure. A pair of Salk Silks I had in the past had the tweeters fail during shipping (in the factory box) but UPS insurance did cover part of the replacement cost.
 
Such wide directivity ribbons should ideally be paired with smaller woofers in an MTM or MMTMM arrangement to maintain controlled directivity. This won't fix vertical directivity, but it can help with good horizontal control. These woofers need good excursion and a low resonance frequency, so naturally they'll have lower sensitivity.
Wide-directivity ribbons really shouldn't be used in 2-way speakers at all. They need a true midrange (<4") to match directivity well.
 
The RAAL tweeters that Ascend uses are customized for them and they maintain spares in the US. I'm not sure if the actual strip of tin is user replaceable but I suspect you'd need to swap the entire assembly if it failed.

RAAL used to offer ribbon replacement kits but I don't know if that's still the case or if that would even apply at all to Ascend's iteration.

I suspect that the RAAL ribbon tweeters might be more fragile and less durable than a standard dome tweeter. This is ok if you live in the same country or easy access to send to repair, but in another country without local customer service the RAAL feels riskier to me.

@AscendDF am I right?
I currently own Salk Super Charged Song Towers and Ascend ELX ribbon towers - both use the RAAL 70-20xr ….. love them both , I can’t imagine ever having a different tweeter … they’re that good. I bought the Ascends last year specifically because the RAAL was an option. Best tweeter , to my ears , I’ve ever heard.

As far as being “delicate” , I’ve found quite the opposite… they’re virtually indestructible - don’t ask how I know …..

Bk
 
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The RAAL tweeters that Ascend uses are customized for them and they maintain spares in the US. I'm not sure if the actual strip of tin is user replaceable but I suspect you'd need to swap the entire assembly if it failed.

RAAL used to offer ribbon replacement kits but I don't know if that's still the case or if that would even apply at all to Ascend's iteration.
The ribbons are replaceable in the 70-20xr , not the 64-10 ..

Bk
 
I currently own Salk Super Charged Song Towers and Ascend ELX ribbon towers - both use the RAAL 70-20xr ….. love them both , I can’t imagine ever having a different tweeter … they’re that good.

As far as being “delicate” , I’ve found quite the opposite… they’re virtually indestructible - don’t ask how I know …..

Bk

(Don't) Use a vacuum to clean dust off the RAAL tweeter and see how it goes. :facepalm:
 
(Don't) Use a vacuum to clean dust off the RAAL tweeter and see how it goes. :facepalm:
Why would anyone ever need to do that ?

The ribbon is recessed far enough back in the housing to never warrant a cleaning .

Bk
 
Replacing the ribbon elent is a ten minute job. Been there done that, got the badge.
 
Why would anyone ever need to do that ?

The ribbon is recessed far enough back in the housing to never warrant a cleaning .

Bk

Usually, it's someone cleaning the speaker grills not knowing the vacuum can easily damage the RAAL. Could be the owner, cleaning people, your loving wife or your daughter who was simply trying to tidy up your listening room. :D
 
Usually, it's someone cleaning the speaker grills not knowing the vacuum can easily damage the RAAL. Could be the owner, cleaning people, your loving wife or your daughter who was simply trying to tidy up your listening room. :D
Time for a new cleaner , wife or daughter !
 
Time for a new cleaner , wife or daughter !
I found the ribbon in general to be as delicate as before, see the manufacturer's instructions:

Bild_2025-03-30_221431939.png
 
I found the ribbon in general to be as delicate as before, see the manufacturer's instructions:

View attachment 440498
I found the ribbon in general to be as delicate as before, see the manufacturer's instructions:

View attachment 440498
That's meant to guard against any sudden decompression during the flight from Serbia. The cardboard cover isn't needed during ground shipping or, obviousl,y during use.And so far, no one has blown a ribbon by violently yanking the cover off of the tweeter.
 
That's meant to guard against any sudden decompression during the flight from Serbia. The cardboard cover isn't needed during ground shipping or, obviousl,y during use.And so far, no one has blown a ribbon by violently yanking the cover off of the tweeter.
I get that, thanks. But still the ribbon is delicate. It seems to be overstreched under specific circumstances. I wonder if a bent ribbon makes itself easily known to the unsuspecting user.

Such could happen with domes also. I had Peerless KA20, which looked pretty well, but showed a lot HD2. The dome was oviously dented once and had lost strength. Localized soft spots to the touch.

My main, personal, caveat is that ribbons are neither needed today, nor is the very special directivity for everyone.
 
I get that, thanks. But still the ribbon is delicate. It seems to be overstreched under specific circumstances. I wonder if a bent ribbon makes itself easily known to the unsuspecting user.

Such could happen with domes also. I had Peerless KA20, which looked pretty well, but showed a lot HD2. The dome was oviously dented once and had lost strength. Localized soft spots to the touch.

My main, personal, caveat is that ribbons are neither needed today, nor is the very special directivity for everyone.
Curious, have you listened to a speaker with a RAAL , the 70-20xr in particular?
They really are exquisite tweeters.

What’s a “bent ribbon” ? They’re a couple mm in thickness and stretched taught across its frame . Ripped or torn maybe , but “bent” ? If it’s ripped or torn , you’d readily see it.. Just not an issue in my experience.

Bk
 
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Curious, have you listened to a speaker with a RAAL , the 70-20xr in particular?
They really are exquisite tweeters.

What’s a “bent ribbon” ? They’re a couple mm in thickness and stretched taught across its frame .
Now that you ask, I do not know exactly. The manufacturer uses the term in his note of caution, see image above. I'm not sure if the ribbon/diaphragm is millimeters thick?
 
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