Thoughts on RAAL tweeter? BMR tower and Ascend ELX

[sneabs]

Is the tweeter bright compared to a dome. I have read about lack of vertical dispersion and may be better suited for certain types of music.

I really like the BMR towers but I am worried about potential brightness. Maybe go with the Ascend ELX towers with the dome.

 

[kyuu]

I'm not much of a fan of RAALs, but it's not because they're intrinsically bright. I don't see measurements of the BMR tower, but we have measurements of the BMR Monitor. The v1 was a bit bright, but the v2 is not:

One issue (for me, others may disagree) is the beaming in the high frequencies:

Get more than ~10-degrees off-axis vertically and you will lose high frequencies (making it less bright). Granted, largely only an issue in the highest frequencies where a lot of people can't hear much anyway.

 

[jonfitch]

The problem with the RAAL is the horizontal dispersion is really much too wide compared to most woofers, so it sounds like there's a small disconnect between the lower and higher frequency sounds. The other big problem is vertical directivity is bad, so it's not really practical for listening closer to the speakers. Also the Olive score is in better with the titan dome version of Ascend speakers so I would lean towards them due to the better tonality.

 

[mj30250]

The problem with the RAAL is the horizontal dispersion is really much too wide compared to most woofers, so it sounds like there's a small disconnect between the lower and higher frequency sounds. The other big problem is vertical directivity is bad, so it's not really practical for listening closer to the speakers. Also the Olive score is in better with the titan dome version of Ascend speakers so I would lean towards them due to the better tonality.

Not that I assign a tremendous amount of importance to the Olive score, but the ELX ribbons are tied for the second highest score of any passive speaker on spinorama.org, just slightly below the KEF Blade 2 Meta. I couldn't find a preference score for the ELX Titan tower.

 

[Mort]

I absolutely love the RAAL and owned both the BMR Tower and the BMR monitor. I can't imagine getting the dome.

 

[BenB]

The problem with the RAAL is the horizontal dispersion is really much too wide compared to most woofers, so it sounds like there's a small disconnect between the lower and higher frequency sounds. The other big problem is vertical directivity is bad, so it's not really practical for listening closer to the speakers. Also the Olive score is in better with the titan dome version of Ascend speakers so I would lean towards them due to the better tonality.

I'd say the problem isn't with the RAAL at all. I prefer wide horizontal dispersion paired with narrow vertical dispersion. A nice speaker will extend that characteristic lower in frequency, and avoid abrupt changes in dispersion. If someone designs a bad speaker using the RAAL, I would consider the "problem" to be with the other components or the integration.

 

[gilency]

I love my RAAL ELX speakers. They are not bright or tiresome. As far as vertical dispersion I listen on my couch. If I stand up and move around because I’m busy I am not really paying attention and the problem is not a real life problem. They still sound great.

 

[staticV3]

The problem with the RAAL is the horizontal dispersion is really much too wide compared to most woofers, so it sounds like there's a small disconnect between the lower and higher frequency sounds.

If crossed over too late, that could be an issue (woofer beaming before tweeter takes over).

But no issues when done right:

 

[norman bates]

Yea, the 2ex v2 are on my "maybe get these for low volume great detail late night listening".............

 

[2020]

If crossed over too late, that could be an issue (woofer beaming before tweeter takes over).

But no issues when done right:
View attachment 439652View attachment 439653View attachment 439654

Lord have mercy!

 

[Penelinfi]

Wide dispersion can sometimes be heard as bright, especially depending on placement and room. It can also bring a larger sound effect since many real life events tend to be a little more omni .
Some people may prefer the warm box and more direct mid-treble of slightly narrower dispersion.

 

[thewas]

If crossed over too late, that could be an issue (woofer beaming before tweeter takes over).

But no issues when done right:
View attachment 439652View attachment 439653View attachment 439654

Normalized some (fortunately not too large) discontinuous widening can be observed:

Vertical on some isn't too great either:

But as @BenB wrote above that is more a result of the implementation than fault of the driver, the big difference in horizontal and vertical directivities though don't make it easy to implement such well in typical home audio designs.

 

[Mort]

that is more a result of the implementation than fault of the driver, the big difference in horizontal and vertical directivities though don't make it easy to implement such well in typical home audio designs.

Fortunately both these speaker designers are earnest and competent and tested.

 

[thewas]

Fortunately both these speaker designers are earnest and competent and tested.

Yes, I agree and like their designs.

 

[Matias]

I suspect that the RAAL ribbon tweeters might be more fragile and less durable than a standard dome tweeter. This is ok if you live in the same country or easy access to send to repair, but in another country without local customer service the RAAL feels riskier to me.

@AscendDF am I right?

 

[thewas]

I suspect that the RAAL ribbon tweeters might be more fragile and less durable than a standard dome tweeter. This is ok if you live in the same country or easy access to send to repair, but in another country without local customer service the RAAL feels riskier to me.

@ascend am I right?

My personal and limited experience with the famous Technics magnetostatic tweeters is also that they lose tension over the years which leads to some distortion increase, don't know though how much that is generalizable to others. On the other hand if you have dome tweeters with ferrofluid that can become also an issue after some decades, so I personally prefer using ones without, which of course has other disadvantages, everything is a compromise.
I doubt though that any company that uses either would officially say that there could be issues in the future.

 

[Blockader]

Such wide directivity ribbons should ideally be paired with smaller woofers in an MTM or MMTMM arrangement to maintain controlled directivity. This won't fix vertical directivity, but it can help with good horizontal control. These woofers need good excursion and a low resonance frequency, so naturally they'll have lower sensitivity.

 

[mj30250]

I suspect that the RAAL ribbon tweeters might be more fragile and less durable than a standard dome tweeter. This is ok if you live in the same country or easy access to send to repair, but in another country without local customer service the RAAL feels riskier to me.

@AscendDF am I right?

The RAAL tweeters that Ascend uses are customized for them and they maintain spares in the US. I'm not sure if the actual strip of tin is user replaceable but I suspect you'd need to swap the entire assembly if it failed.

RAAL used to offer ribbon replacement kits but I don't know if that's still the case or if that would even apply at all to Ascend's iteration.

 

[Heinrich]

I suspect that the RAAL ribbon tweeters might be more fragile and less durable than a standard dome tweeter.

I once had the (in)famous Jordanov ribbons. Driven one with a too low frequency (1kHz or so, no bass) for an initial test it destroyed itself in that very instant. The ribbon crumbled in chaotic movement - puff and gone forever. I remember others saying that wind, or even a slamming door destroyed their's.

Maybe nowadays that problem is solved. But there are so many other, I would triple check plus five again if I truely need a ribbon.

 

[sq225917]

Like any driver, it's down to implementation. I run RAAL 140-15D in place of the beryllium tweeters in my NS100M. certainly no issue with FR or dispersion when done correctly.

Regarding their durability, I've had them 8 years, the tweeters have been moved/ removed, i purchased them 2nd hand. They've been boxed up taken to hifi shows, shipped via post in their original packaging and the only time I damaged one was when a dropped it from waist height. Swapping a new ribbon is was super easy.