Best closed back, over-ear headphone under $250?

[Fluffy]

You're talking like there is one type of people\audiophiles in the world and everyone like the same exact thing. Why hasn't anyone made the "perfect headphone" for every person than? Because each listener is different, and an average score can't tell you if a specific person likes something or not, just the probability they will. Hell, by your logic everyone should be listening to hip hop because it sells the best out of all genres, and The Shawshank Redemption should be everyone's favorite movie because it scored highest on IMDB…

Furthermore, my opinion about the Meze 99 is not some singular outlier. I have talked and read about many people (Tyll Hertsens among them, who also put them on his wall of fame) who also appreciate their sound signature, for the same reasons I did. You can say that you don't like their sound (have you even tried them I wonder?), but trying to "prove" that they sound bad is a fool's errand. I listened to plenty of headphones that are considered "the best" and "universally loved" like HD650, and I hated them to my very core.

I admit that pads make a lot of difference with these cans, and when I tired different pads with them it didn't have the same appeal. But pads are easy to swap on these, and I'm sure anybody can find pads that makes them sound how they like. This says absolutely nothing about the headphone itself.

And by the way I just wanted to add that I don't think these headphones are special or something. My fierce defense of them is solely meant to push back against Erik's misguided thought that he can prove a given person would not like a given headphone because someone else said they don't like it, or because they don't conform to some target response. Human psychology is so much more complicated than what a single graph/study can claim.

 

[zermak]

Personal preferences are subjective of course but we have a scientific way to evaluate the general preference of an headphone thanks to the Harmann studies and the resulted house curves for both in-ear and over-ear/on-ear headphones.
That said I am with the others that are suggesting headphones close to the Harmann's house curve.

I am not and expert at all and I have just listened to the headphones I bought for me reading discussuions and reviews not even knowing about this stuff until getting here but I think I am lucky enough to have bought a decent set of cans (AKG K712 Pro) and cheap in-ear (KZ ZS10 Pro) and over-ear (Sennheiser PX-100, these were my train ride companion which I don't use anymore becasue of not travelling as in past).

I don't have a raccomandation indeed but if I would buy again a new pair of cans it will be the one closer to the Harmann's curve and DSP it to get the best of it so I would probably go for a low distortion headphone too.

 

[Erik]

You're talking like there is one type of people\audiophiles in the world and everyone like the same exact thing. Why hasn't anyone made the "perfect headphone" for every person than? Because each listener is different, and an average score can't tell you if a specific person likes something or not, just the probability they will. Hell, by your logic everyone should be listening to hip hop because it sells the best out of all genres, and The Shawshank Redemption should be everyone's favorite movie because it scored highest on IMDB…

Furthermore, my opinion about the Meze 99 is not some singular outlier. I have talked and read about many people (Tyll Hertsens among them, who also put them on his wall of fame) who also appreciate their sound signature, for the same reasons I did. You can say that you don't like their sound (have you even tried them I wonder?), but trying to "prove" that they sound bad is a fool's errand. I listened to plenty of headphones that are considered "the best" and "universally loved" like HD650, and I hated them to my very core.

I admit that pads make a lot of difference with these cans, and when I tired different pads with them it didn't have the same appeal. But pads are easy to swap on these, and I'm sure anybody can find pads that makes them sound how they like. This says absolutely nothing about the headphone itself.

And by the way I just wanted to add that I don't think these headphones are special or something. My fierce defense of them is solely meant to push back against Erik's misguided thought that he can prove a given person would not like a given headphone because someone else said they don't like it, or because they don't conform to some target response. Human psychology is so much more complicated than what a single graph/study can claim.

Tyll Hertsens put the original version on his wall of fame, not the broken one.
"The new pad has taken the 99 Classic from "excellent" to "also ran" status. I preferred the sound of the ATH-M50x to either Meze when using the new pads. I will be requesting a current example of the 99 Classic and a production sample of the 99 Neo to reconsider the 99 Classic's "Wall of Fame" status."
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/meze-99-neo-around-ear-sealed-headphones
And stop making a straw man, I am not sharing my opinion here. It is a documented fact that overall people dislike how Meze 99 sound. Your argument was that "Meze 99 is pure value for money". Now, talking about value: Meze 99 are second from the left on this plot. Looks like a pretty bad value to me.

 

[Fluffy]

You are still missing my point. When you bring here these kinds of "proofs", that I'm of course aware are made by someone else, you are attempting to persuade people with the notion that you can predict what will sound bad to them. And thus you help create bias toward some target response that everyone should abide by. The end result is that people won't try to search beyond what "looks good on paper" and try things that may be better for them, but don't fall under the mainstream concept of what is good. It's just dismissive of the fact that we are not all created equal, and I think that by promoting this way of thinking you could be robbing someone of a more personal-fitting experience. Being an objectivist for me is about freeing people from pre-conceptions, not about trapping them in new ones.

As for the Meze - for people who are not looking after a neutral sound signature (and specifically looking for a bass heavy signature), it's recommended to give the Meze a listen and decide by themselves if they like it or not. Is there a chance they won't like it? Sure. But, if they do, it has a very high VFM factor for those who are looking for that specific sound signature, together with all its other attributes. Did I say it's value for money for every person on earth? No. I was basically talking about me and people with similar taste to mine.

 

[zermak]

@Fluffy
I see your point but as I mentioned before most probably the OP and actually is friend will not mind the sound of a can designed around the Harmann's curve or that is close to it. He asks for the best but we don't know his friend's personal preference and like me, many of us, thought he is looking for a balanced headphone or he would have said something more to let us help him find the right cans.

 

[JJB70]

Try the Audio Technica ATH MSR7, a touch bright but accurate and detailed and nicely made.

 

[q3cpma]

I'd say Beyerdynamic DT250, as long as your ears fit inside the cups.

 

[SimpleTheater]

I’m sure you’ll get a fair few recommendations, but the best I’ve personally heard around this price point are the Meze 99 Classic. Lovely little set of cans

Love my Meze 99 Classic. Second this recommendation.

 

[Erik]

You are still missing my point. When you bring here these kinds of "proofs", that I'm of course aware are made by someone else, you are attempting to persuade people with the notion that you can predict what will sound bad to them. And thus you help create bias toward some target response that everyone should abide by. The end result is that people won't try to search beyond what "looks good on paper" and try things that may be better for them, but don't fall under the mainstream concept of what is good. It's just dismissive of the fact that we are not all created equal, and I think that by promoting this way of thinking you could be robbing someone of a more personal-fitting experience. Being an objectivist for me is about freeing people from pre-conceptions, not about trapping them in new ones.

As for the Meze - for people who are not looking after a neutral sound signature (and specifically looking for a bass heavy signature), it's recommended to give the Meze a listen and decide by themselves if they like it or not. Is there a chance they won't like it? Sure. But, if they do, it has a very high VFM factor for those who are looking for that specific sound signature, together with all its other attributes. Did I say it's value for money for every person on earth? No. I was basically talking about me and people with similar taste to mine.

No one has missed your point. Your point was that "Meze 99 is pure value for money". This point was questioned and shown to be false. Mind you, there was nothing in your original message saying that the point applies only to you and to people with similar taste to yours. Sure, there are folks who like having more bass than Beats headphones can offer, and for them Meze 99 may be a good value (simply because there are no other headphones with such overemphasized bass response). But overall, people very much dislike how Meze 99 sound. And recommending them as a "pure value for money" to anyone, without knowing that this person is a huge basshead, is just plain misleading.

 

[solderdude]

I'd say Beyerdynamic DT250, as long as your ears fit inside the cups.

... and one fixes the channel imbalance.

I find the Meze 99 (newer version with bigger pads) very dark sounding. However, many people seem to like/prefer it. I can see this headphone sounding pleasant on the go listening to crappy.
The VISO HP50 is also dark sounding but crappy in build quality and seal (on some heads).

The sound and comfort of headphones is a very personal thing and depends on taste and use cases. I would recommend to visit some hifishops and just listen to those that fall within your budget.
Someone else's 'best' may not be your best.. and vice versa.

 

[AnalogDE]

Tyll Hertsens put the original version on his wall of fame, not the broken one.
"The new pad has taken the 99 Classic from "excellent" to "also ran" status. I preferred the sound of the ATH-M50x to either Meze when using the new pads. I will be requesting a current example of the 99 Classic and a production sample of the 99 Neo to reconsider the 99 Classic's "Wall of Fame" status."
https://www.innerfidelity.com/content/meze-99-neo-around-ear-sealed-headphones
And stop making a straw man, I am not sharing my opinion here. It is a documented fact that overall people dislike how Meze 99 sound. Your argument was that "Meze 99 is pure value for money". Now, talking about value: Meze 99 are second from the left on this plot. Looks like a pretty bad value to me.

View attachment 34542

Where did you find this plot ?

 

[AnalogDE]

Beyerdynamic DT 770 PRO (selling for ~$140) is what I use at work.

 

[Fluffy]

Well so far the Meze has been recommended 3 times in this thread, more than any other headphone...

 

[doctorjuggles]

Well so far the Meze has been recommended 3 times in this thread, more than any other headphone...

Worth giving them a listen if you’re able to. It seems like newer ones might have an issue. I personally liked the ones I heard, they were fun and engaging for my tastes, which are on the warmer side - but I like my electronics to be neutral and my speakers/headphones to be warm. Anything tizzy and harsh on the top end really hurts my ears, but it would be helpful if you shared your own preferences for sound with us, maybe we can tailor our recommendations more helpfully for you that way

 

[M00ndancer]

The sound and comfort of headphones is a very personal thing and depends on taste and use cases. I would recommend to visit some hifishops and just listen to those that fall within your budget.

This is why I prefer my EQ adjusted Sony MDR-1a. Depending on the music I'll run them with or w/o EQ. As long as they can handle the low end part of a music track it's sooooo good. But on some track they totally breaks down and need some EQ to tame the bass. All depending on the mastering and type of music. Listen to the advice from @solderdude ! In the end it's you that is listening to your music, not me listening to mine.

 

[Erik]

Where did you find this plot ?

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19436

 

[AnalogDE]

http://www.aes.org/e-lib/browse.cfm?elib=19436

Behind a paywall -- anywhere else I can find this information?

 

[Drone/doom]

You are still missing my point. When you bring here these kinds of "proofs", that I'm of course aware are made by someone else, you are attempting to persuade people with the notion that you can predict what will sound bad to them. And thus you help create bias toward some target response that everyone should abide by. The end result is that people won't try to search beyond what "looks good on paper" and try things that may be better for them, but don't fall under the mainstream concept of what is good. It's just dismissive of the fact that we are not all created equal, and I think that by promoting this way of thinking you could be robbing someone of a more personal-fitting experience. Being an objectivist for me is about freeing people from pre-conceptions, not about trapping them in new ones.

It's almost like he never reads the stuff he spams as gospel because those FR charts he shows are void since the dude who did them. Didn't show the boosted bass on a TX00 or the beyer treble peak on a DT770, Not to mention the 7db 7k boost on the ER4SR EQ that touches a dip that supposed to be there?.

 

[Bliman]

Beyerdynamic DT 250 are very very good. They are price/value one of the very best and they are pretty neutral.

 

[flipflop]

Behind a paywall -- anywhere else I can find this information?

https://www.docdroid.net/enYZsTS/a-...tings-of-around-ear-and-on-ear-headphones.pdf