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Battery Power for our Systems?

egellings

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So, you power your AC device with a DC source that first must be converted to AC to power the AC device that uses conventional power transformers, and then you convert it back into DC again inside the device. Seems a bit roundabout to me. Maybe the more you whip the cream, the smoother it gets.
 

Sokel

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I owned an ASR amp for years,never felt the need to buy it's special battery PSU.
I guess there are applications for batteries,that was not one of them.
Sounded totally the same.
 

egellings

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I'd use a battery if I absolutely had to float the piece of equipment from the power line. Nothing floats like a battery! Example would be a head amp for a moving coil phono cartridge.
 

DoubleWoofers

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So, you power your AC device with a DC source that first must be converted to AC to power the AC device that uses conventional power transformers, and then you convert it back into DC again inside the device. Seems a bit roundabout to me. Maybe the more you whip the cream, the smoother it gets.

You have made the critical mistake of using common sense and logic for anything involving audiophiles. You also forgot to mention putting a switch mode power supply in front of a linear supply.
 

Audiofire

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On another forum a fellow was reporting that he was using a Portable Power Supply (A LiPo battery in a box with a Pure Sine Wave Inverter) to power his system. He suggested that it got him totally away from the "Grid" and all its noise and distortion.
Probably gives him more distortion, because impedance of the AC is important for hi-fi equipment, and power conditioners can make the impedance worse.

Only in cases, where the impedance of AC mains is ridiculously bad can an expensive power inverter improve the performance of normal (reasonable) hi-fi equipment:

So...I was thinking, with Li battery technology exploding as to amp-hours and limited voltage drop over its discharge cycle, would it be practical to build HiFi equipment that runs on 12, 24 or 48V DC and do away with the whole AC to DC conversion in the equipment.
Audio interfaces and dedicated phono stages sometimes use an external 12 VDC adapter, because they don't need much current.
 
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DoubleWoofers

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Probably gives him more distortion, because impedance of the AC is important for hi-fi equipment, and power conditioners can make the impedance worse.

Only in cases, where the impedance of AC mains is ridiculously bad can an expensive power inverter improve the performance of normal (reasonable) hi-fi equipment:


Audio interfaces and dedicated phono stages sometimes use an external 12 VDC adapter, because they don't need much current.

In most cases, low impedance would be worse for noise. I can't think of any time the absolute lowest impedance would be a good thing. Do you really care if your amp is 499 or 500 watts? The asinine stories audiophiles tell themselves.
 

Audiofire

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In most cases, low impedance would be worse for noise. I can't think of any time the absolute lowest impedance would be a good thing. Do you really care if your amp is 499 or 500 watts? The asinine stories audiophiles tell themselves.
Indeed, there are some asinine stories about power conditioners. But in this case, you are mistaken about impedance from what I know. My point was that batteries or power conditioners are not worth it, because the capacitance of capacitors will be good enough (watts as you wrote).

We are talking about the connection to the power company, and tight line regulation is best, which is what low impedance is for AC mains. Some countries do have poor impedance on AC mains sometimes.
 
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DoubleWoofers

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Indeed, there are some asinine stories about power conditioners. But in this case, you are mistaken about impedance from what I know. My point was that batteries or power conditioners are not worth, it because the capacitance of capacitors will be enough (watts as you wrote).

We are talking about the connection to the power company, and tight line regulation is best, which is what low impedance is for AC mains. Some countries do have poor impedance on AC mains sometimes.

I don't believe I am wrong. Low impedance on the AC line must mean higher current, which means more noise. Having low impedance between connected equipment would be a good thing, i.e. keep the ground reference close, but having low impedance feeding the whole thing, seems flawed. What is your reasoning?

Impedance and line regulation are not the same thing.
 

Audiofire

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I don't believe I am wrong. Low impedance on the AC line must mean higher current, which means more noise. Having low impedance between connected equipment would be a good thing, i.e. keep the ground reference close, but having low impedance feeding the whole thing, seems flawed. What is your reasoning?

Impedance and line regulation are not the same thing.
It only means higher current if that is what the equipment draws from what I know. The current load is determined by connected equipment. Amir made a video about an ideal voltage source here:

Electronics for Audiophiles: Voltage and Current​

 

DoubleWoofers

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It only means higher current if that is what the equipment draws from what I know. The current load is determined by connected equipment. Amir made a video about an ideal voltage source here:

Electronics for Audiophiles: Voltage and Current​


That is not really applicable. You have to consider practical implementations, i.e. rectified AC dumping into a capacitor.
 

Audiofire

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That is not really applicable. You have to consider practical implementations, i.e. rectified AC dumping into a capacitor.
Hmm... Not really applicable? The voltage source is determined by how much power it has available, from capacitors or AC mains. So it's the same reason why batteries and a power inverter are bad voltage sources.
 

egellings

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There's no reason why a battery or inverter cannot be a good, steady regulated voltage source. Batteries, that have a low source impedance are actually quite good at that.
 

Doodski

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Hmm... Not really applicable? The voltage source is determined by how much power it has available, from capacitors or AC mains. So it's the same reason why batteries and a power inverter are bad voltage sources.
Did you snap that pic of your avatar yourself? It appears very dangerous with the fire possibly getting into the wall space and burning the building down. How did your oscilloscope and amplifier frequency response test go for you? (3dB down cutoff frequency test.)
 

Audiofire

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There's no reason why a battery or inverter cannot be a good, steady regulated voltage source. Batteries, that have a low source impedance are actually quite good at that.
I took a good look at whether a UPS was a good idea for hi-fi equipment as you might know such things as the PS Audio AC regenerator. My web research made it quite clear, that a UPS is made for an easy crest ratio. Especially designed for computer power supplies that have power factor correction.

The power factor of hi-fi equipment is never corrected from what I know. And the batteries are not built into the equipment. You would still need a UPS, which has batteries inside. Totally pointless expense that introduces extra distortion when the load is a bad power factor/crest ratio.

Did you snap that pic of your avatar yourself? It appears very dangerous with the fire possibly getting into the wall space and burning the building down. How did your oscilloscope and amplifier frequency response test go for you? (3dB down cutoff frequency test.)
I did not take the picture. Do you like it? I could upload a cute picture of my cat instead, but then again it wouldn't be quite anonymous. :) Internet anonymity is cozy. Would you rather have a picture of my cute cat?

The oscilloscope is on my rainy day/bucket list. I do it when I feel like it and have time and energy. A rare combination.
 

Doodski

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I did not take the picture. Do you like it? I could upload a cute picture of my cat instead, but then again it wouldn't be quite anonymous. :) Internet anonymity is cozy. Would you rather have a picture of my cute cat?
The pic has carved a niche for you in that it is preposterously recognizable. I like it. I'm sure we have a cat thread around somewhere for such occasions some cat owner decides to post his kitteh.
 

Audiofire

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One LiPo power supply unit could run the entire system rather than multiple power supplies in each unit.
The only reason why electric cars need huge batteries is that they don't have a steady voltage supply from a wired connection for example. Charging and replacing batteries is a hassle and an expense.

Power amplifiers use lots of unimpeded watts, which is even more obvious with large concerts that use watts galore.
 
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Jaxjax

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When I used to build 26 DHT & 27 IDHT preamps I did a few all battery, They sounded fine & were even smaller then my separate PS builds sorta.. Definitely help tame the hard to work with 26 & 27 globes. I did short out a 150-175v all battery Pre once...wasn't pretty
 
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