watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I think most know this when they stop to think about it. After all, everyone has seen a mixing console.
But I think they choose to ignore it for reasons of cognitive bias.
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Bass ‘chest thump’ at live gigs ?
- Thread starter Purité Audio
- Start date
I think most know this when they stop to think about it. After all, everyone has seen a mixing console.
But I think they choose to ignore it for reasons of cognitive bias.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
As far as my gear goes, I have a pair of two-way stand mounts with hi-fi 7" SEAS woofers crossed over over to 4x12" sealed subs. I also have a pair of cheapo three-way towers with 15" woofers that roll off in the mid-20Hz range. Admittedly they are in different rooms so I can compare precisely, but I have EQ'd them to broadly similar in-room response and have done some comparisons using an SPL meter and the same music going up to around 95dB average at the listening position (about as loud as I'm comfortable running the two-ways).
The SEAS-based system sounds much better overall and is what I consider my reference system, but it has no answer for the authority with which the 15" woofers handle content in the 80-250Hz range. It's tactile and exciting. The 7" driver has no thump in comparison. To compensate I tend to cross the subs over higher than I ought to, which helps but has its own compromises.
I am very much looking forward to replacing the two-ways with either a hi-fi oriented three-way anchored by a larger woofer, or else a high-efficiency design with a 12" pro woofer and a compression driver.
watchnerd
Grand Contributor
I'm pairing 2 x 7" with 2 x 12" subs.
2x 6.5" paired with 2x 12" subs here, crossed over at 60Hz, which gives the best combination of sound quality at the main listening position, and good even sound in the rest of the living room.
I get good 'punch', but I have to turn it up very high to get a hint of that chest thump, far too high to maintain good relations with my upstairs neighbor. If space and money were no concerns, I would have (multiple) 15" woofers/midwoofers in the mains. Something like a set of JBL JRX225s or SRX835s would be perfect, they aren't even horribly expensive.
I still think about the surround setup I saw with 6 (six!) Cerwin-Vega speakers the size of small fridges. Just give me 2 of those speakers, I don't even need the whole set. When/if I get the space some day, I'll get an oversized system. You know, for garden parties.
I get good 'punch', but I have to turn it up very high to get a hint of that chest thump, far too high to maintain good relations with my upstairs neighbor. If space and money were no concerns, I would have (multiple) 15" woofers/midwoofers in the mains. Something like a set of JBL JRX225s or SRX835s would be perfect, they aren't even horribly expensive.
I still think about the surround setup I saw with 6 (six!) Cerwin-Vega speakers the size of small fridges. Just give me 2 of those speakers, I don't even need the whole set. When/if I get the space some day, I'll get an oversized system. You know, for garden parties.
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Yes, amplitude, big bass speakers (15") with extended low end and lots of power will give you the chest thump and pressurise the room with bass. The fugly JBL 4722 Cinema two ways I run are fridge sized with high efficiency double 15" woofers in each cab powered by 525 watts aside. They run from 45 Hz to 630 Hz crossed over with digital XO to a large waveguide. Below 45Hz with digital XO, I run dual 18" subs at 900 watts aside. So about 2800 watts in total below 600 Hz. All drivers are time aligned.
Typically, I don't listen very loud, mostly at reference level, but punchy and can feel the drums and bass. For fun, I crank it up and start moving some air where I can recreate like being at the rock club/concert. Source: ex sound guy for live sound gigs that wanted to recreate that punchy sound in my home. I have an acoustic drum kit, bass and electric guitar amps in the same room to compare with and sometimes jam along with the tracks. Lots of fun.
Typically, I don't listen very loud, mostly at reference level, but punchy and can feel the drums and bass. For fun, I crank it up and start moving some air where I can recreate like being at the rock club/concert. Source: ex sound guy for live sound gigs that wanted to recreate that punchy sound in my home. I have an acoustic drum kit, bass and electric guitar amps in the same room to compare with and sometimes jam along with the tracks. Lots of fun.
OP
- Thread Starter
- #48
Mitch does your target curve change, do you alter it at higher output?
You mentioned amplitude , are you just turning up the volume or alerting the balance, and pressurise the room, how can you do that, lead room?
Keith
You mentioned amplitude , are you just turning up the volume or alerting the balance, and pressurise the room, how can you do that, lead room?
Keith
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Keith, target curve is the same (I calibrate at reference level 83 dB SPL at the LP). I use DRC to tame room modes and the response goes down to 6 Hz in my room. It's just a lot of bass cone area ( 4 x 15" and 2 x 18") plus nearly 2 kilowatts of power driving them. Enough to flex, shake and pressurise my room in a wood house on its foundation when the volume is turned up.
saturnaal
Member
If you want to feel it, you need to move a large volume of air decisively. As the old adage goes, there's no replacement for displacement.
While I do the vast majority of my listening on headphones (mostly out of courtesy for those I co-habitate with) and love the incredible fidelity available for the money with desktop setups, you just can't reproduce the entire live / loudspeaker experience with headphones.
My living room setup sports a pair of Infinity floor-standing loudspeakers with front mounted 12" woofers. When I have the place to myself and the mood is right, music can be driven to thundering levels that will ripple through your gut and vibrate the hairs on your arms. Seated in the premier listening position, center couch, there's no lack of bass thump. I do think woofer direction matters here. Just put your hand in front of the bass port on your speakers, then off to the side. How much amplifier you need for this seems to be a hot topic, but I've never felt lacking with 120WPC into 8ohms.
Listening at these volumes introduces additional distortions like silverware vibrating in the kitchen drawer, paintings tapping the wall, and the cat yowling his disapproval of my musical tendencies. It's not quite a true simulation of standing 3-feet in front of a 12' stack at a Clutch concert, but the absence of beer-soaked shoes and bruises makes for a compelling trade.
The type of living-room monoliths that I've always used seem to have gone out of style in favor of sleek, slim tower speakers and wall mounted 7.1 surround sound. I never really caught the surround sound bug, but I can see the appeal for avid television and movie watchers.
Of course, this is still source (read: recording) dependent. As someone else mentioned, these days it seems like low-filters and compression are extremely commonplace. Recordings that were mastered this way are generally not pleasant to drive to the levels required to get that physical sensation of bass.
While I do the vast majority of my listening on headphones (mostly out of courtesy for those I co-habitate with) and love the incredible fidelity available for the money with desktop setups, you just can't reproduce the entire live / loudspeaker experience with headphones.
My living room setup sports a pair of Infinity floor-standing loudspeakers with front mounted 12" woofers. When I have the place to myself and the mood is right, music can be driven to thundering levels that will ripple through your gut and vibrate the hairs on your arms. Seated in the premier listening position, center couch, there's no lack of bass thump. I do think woofer direction matters here. Just put your hand in front of the bass port on your speakers, then off to the side. How much amplifier you need for this seems to be a hot topic, but I've never felt lacking with 120WPC into 8ohms.
Listening at these volumes introduces additional distortions like silverware vibrating in the kitchen drawer, paintings tapping the wall, and the cat yowling his disapproval of my musical tendencies. It's not quite a true simulation of standing 3-feet in front of a 12' stack at a Clutch concert, but the absence of beer-soaked shoes and bruises makes for a compelling trade.
The type of living-room monoliths that I've always used seem to have gone out of style in favor of sleek, slim tower speakers and wall mounted 7.1 surround sound. I never really caught the surround sound bug, but I can see the appeal for avid television and movie watchers.
Of course, this is still source (read: recording) dependent. As someone else mentioned, these days it seems like low-filters and compression are extremely commonplace. Recordings that were mastered this way are generally not pleasant to drive to the levels required to get that physical sensation of bass.
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I always found the opening of over my shoulder quite punchy, and when i saw them live punchy they were.
https://tidal.com/browse/track/69553072
Seeing on the spectrogram the bass punchs comes from 20 to 130 Hz entirely.
https://tidal.com/browse/track/69553072
Seeing on the spectrogram the bass punchs comes from 20 to 130 Hz entirely.
barfyman362
Member
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I thought it was pretty funny when audioholics put the $500 Behringer live music subwoofer in their recent list of recommended budget subs. It supposedly hits 124dB at 1m with a -10dB at 40Hz.
One of my preferred ex Genesis member CD
LightninBoy
Addicted to Fun and Learning
When I setup my first HT room - many years ago - I ended up blowing my entire speaker budget on subwoofer because of a demo. It was the only demo where I could literally feel my pant legs flapping while Neo was shooting a machine gun. That was a Revel B15 sub together with Revel Performa F50s I think. Best bass response I've ever heard in domestic system then or ever. Of course, it didn't sound that good when I got it in my much smaller room and paired with my tiny monitor speakers. I should've known something was up when the demo room had the sub suspended on a shelf about 6ft into the air.
Vini darko
Major Contributor
@MediumRare I'm jealous , you have the dream subwoofer. Are they as good as the spec sheet suggests?
Here's my in-room measurements and corrections. The screen graphics are a little out of date :O but I can't complain about +/- 2 db 15 Hz to 160 Hz. How loud can it play? Ahahahahahahahahaha!
infinitesymphony
Major Contributor
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As CountArthur said ....
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/.../room-size-vs-speaker-size.12258/#post-533398
